Gatwick go-around
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I seem to remember being taught during my flying training that every approach was an approach to "go around". It is only if everything is as it needs to be that an approach is then continued to land. I know of a DC10 going around at Gatwick having spent some time with its main gear on the runway. (I was the catcher. Wet and gusty tailwind approach, the nose wouldn't come down quickly enough - full power and round again.) The last thing the pilot of a fast jet approaching his carrier does before he crosses the roundown is apply full power, IN THE EXPECTATION that he is going to bolt. Catch a wire - close the throttles, miss the wires - close the speed brake.
I have also seen a Tristar going around from about 100' and then being turned over Crawley to separate from the B747 just rotating underneath it. It did look like an airshow yes but appropriate intervention kept it safe.
We have become so good at getting it right that when occasionally things don't work it is sensationally blown up into something horrific. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh?
Point 4
I have also seen a Tristar going around from about 100' and then being turned over Crawley to separate from the B747 just rotating underneath it. It did look like an airshow yes but appropriate intervention kept it safe.
We have become so good at getting it right that when occasionally things don't work it is sensationally blown up into something horrific. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh?
Point 4
Last edited by 120.4; 6th Apr 2002 at 07:42.
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I do not usually buy the Sun, however from time to time I do read it at work . I was totally flabergasted by the crap written by the Sun journo about the LGW go around, imagine what that story did for a nervous flyer thinking of booking their summer holiday flight to PMI that day. It's about time the CAA brought newspaper editors to task over this melodramatic clap trap
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I saw a DC 10 going over my house on thursday, it was not foggy, I looked up thought something had gone pair shaped and carried on doing whatever I was doing, didn't think it would make the papers. My only go-around at LGW didn't, but I'm not bitter!!!
But then that was also a none event.
But then that was also a none event.
None but a blockhead
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I'm with Halo. I know that during a go-around everyone's very busy and having a calming chat to the pax isn't high on the checklist, but it would do a great deal of good to let people know what happened at some point before they get off. Doesn't have to be a full debrief, just "I know some of you will be wondering what happened just then, it was a normal routine to ensure good safety margins on landing. We didn't land first time around because the a/c in front of us was a little late departing the runway, and in such circumstances it is standard procedure to go around and give everyone more time." Or whatever. If you're not comfortable doing PAs (I've heard a few mumbled announcements that really should have started "Unaccustomed as I am to public speaking..."), practice something along those lines when you've got a spare few minutes so you'll be ready when it happens next. It WILL be appreciated.
Lots of passengers are very nervous about flying, and it's not just those who only fly once in a blue moon or look as if they expect the worst. It's very noticeable how quickly the atmosphere down the back gets tense as soon as things start to depart noticeably from expected -- and you may not think it's right, but a couple of hundred people who really thought their next in-flight briefing's going to come from the Archangel Gabriel is worth a story.
I'm not defending shoddy journalism -- which annoys me far more than it annoys you, trust me! It's no fun being in a business which attracts such opprobrium -- but everyone has a role to play in making it harder for the sensationalists to get away with it. You have a captive audience who want to know what happened: get to them before the Klingons do. Who knows -- there may even be an editor back there who'll spike the next bit of non-event nonsense that passes their desk as a result.
R
Lots of passengers are very nervous about flying, and it's not just those who only fly once in a blue moon or look as if they expect the worst. It's very noticeable how quickly the atmosphere down the back gets tense as soon as things start to depart noticeably from expected -- and you may not think it's right, but a couple of hundred people who really thought their next in-flight briefing's going to come from the Archangel Gabriel is worth a story.
I'm not defending shoddy journalism -- which annoys me far more than it annoys you, trust me! It's no fun being in a business which attracts such opprobrium -- but everyone has a role to play in making it harder for the sensationalists to get away with it. You have a captive audience who want to know what happened: get to them before the Klingons do. Who knows -- there may even be an editor back there who'll spike the next bit of non-event nonsense that passes their desk as a result.
R
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It doesn't matter what you say to the pax because they won't be the ones writing the rubbish in the paper. I remember a recent event when an aircraft being positioned with crew only ingested a bird on short finals and declared an emergency due to a burning smell. It was reported in the paper next day as 'Terror as jet packed with holiday makers makes emergency landing when cabin fills with smoke!'.
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The point is go-arounds are the safe option, air trafic controllers may be right 99% of the time and are our best friends, the 1% is up to the flight crew so they will always have the final say. Gatwick only has 2.5 miles approach separation so only about 55 seconds from 50 feet to getting off the runway, but in this case the A330-200 was taking off so the crew did have time to make the best decision, upsetting passengers and making the news is a small price to pay. In our operations manual it says a professional pilot does a go-around. History shows that many more pilots should have done this.
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Perhaps airlines should see the light and be more aggressive in making ie. "creating" the news, with reams and reams of press releases. Carefully craft and spin everyday normal occurrences with the hope of heading off the ambulance-chaser journalists.
example,
April 5, 2002- London
ABC Airways flight 345 inbound to Gatwick airport arrived 10 minutes late today due to a routine air traffic control-related delay. The majority of the flight's passengers were returning from their yearly holiday to the sunny south, and therefore welcomed the delay as it slightly postponed their return to the daily grind.
Easy huh?
example,
April 5, 2002- London
ABC Airways flight 345 inbound to Gatwick airport arrived 10 minutes late today due to a routine air traffic control-related delay. The majority of the flight's passengers were returning from their yearly holiday to the sunny south, and therefore welcomed the delay as it slightly postponed their return to the daily grind.
Easy huh?
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Ok, I go along with most of the scepticism here, particularly when the Sun is involved. But let me play Devil's advocate here for a moment:
WHAT IF the go around was called a bit late?
WHAT IF separation was close to the 100' quoted?
I am willing to bet that Mr. Airport Spokesman will declare that "no passengers were placed in any danger." Perhaps it could be argued that is the way it should be, particularly prior to the outcome of any investigation and bearing in mind the desire not to upset the customer. However, it seems to me that too often we end up a crap news report and a crap official statement. I think the relationship between the press and the aviation industry needs to be tackled from both ends.
But then again, as you know, I remain
Niaga Dessip
WHAT IF the go around was called a bit late?
WHAT IF separation was close to the 100' quoted?
I am willing to bet that Mr. Airport Spokesman will declare that "no passengers were placed in any danger." Perhaps it could be argued that is the way it should be, particularly prior to the outcome of any investigation and bearing in mind the desire not to upset the customer. However, it seems to me that too often we end up a crap news report and a crap official statement. I think the relationship between the press and the aviation industry needs to be tackled from both ends.
But then again, as you know, I remain
Niaga Dessip
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It's strange that, as an aviation journalist, I've made the effort to read dozens of books on airlines and aircraft systems, meet the people who influence the industry, sat in cockpits during flights to chat with the flight crews about their work, walked around air traffic control centres across the world, spoken to controllers to ask their opinions and listen to their concerns, attended dozens of conferences hosted by ICAO, IATA and god-knows-who-else and sat through hundreds of lectures by you good people (and your bosses) on everything from satellite navigation to budget carrier network planning.
Now I know most of you are busy, but I can't recollect ever seeing more than one or two pilots -- let alone air traffic controllers or airport managers -- in my office, despite its being home to one of the most established aviation publications around. Ya know, one of you guys is gonna have to tell me how you've learned SO much about our job, our integrity and our professionalism. Please don't disappoint me and say that it's all from the Daily Mail Fount of Wisdom
Personally, I'd be happy just for a grudging admission that there is a difference between people like me, and people like Scoop Dogshyte, ace tabloid reporter. Perhaps that's a bit much to ask from one or two of you. But I do agree with a lot of your sentiments...I wish the tabloids would stop their sensationalist tosh -- not only because the public gets misled, but because it reflects badly on me too.
I've no great desire to be called unprofessional, inaccurate, or a liar. Especially because I can't hide behind a User Name in a publication. My byline's real, and I stand by everything I write. Yes, really -- some of us are very proud of our work.
Looking forward to meeting some of you at a future Bash (if I can find a way to make myself look presentable rather than like scum straight out of the gutter, of course)
Now I know most of you are busy, but I can't recollect ever seeing more than one or two pilots -- let alone air traffic controllers or airport managers -- in my office, despite its being home to one of the most established aviation publications around. Ya know, one of you guys is gonna have to tell me how you've learned SO much about our job, our integrity and our professionalism. Please don't disappoint me and say that it's all from the Daily Mail Fount of Wisdom
Personally, I'd be happy just for a grudging admission that there is a difference between people like me, and people like Scoop Dogshyte, ace tabloid reporter. Perhaps that's a bit much to ask from one or two of you. But I do agree with a lot of your sentiments...I wish the tabloids would stop their sensationalist tosh -- not only because the public gets misled, but because it reflects badly on me too.
I've no great desire to be called unprofessional, inaccurate, or a liar. Especially because I can't hide behind a User Name in a publication. My byline's real, and I stand by everything I write. Yes, really -- some of us are very proud of our work.
Looking forward to meeting some of you at a future Bash (if I can find a way to make myself look presentable rather than like scum straight out of the gutter, of course)
Last edited by Kalium Chloride; 6th Apr 2002 at 21:15.
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I agree with KC that there are excellent journalists working for respectable magazines. They put their personal reputations on the line with every story they write.
The hacks who work for the national newspapers, TV and radio have different values and don't care about the story they are writing and are more interested in filling space in what they see as a readable interesting way rather than informing accurately.
The point that really worries me is that I can see how wrong they get a story when I know what happened. But I still read the other 99.99 per cent of stories and have to accept what I read. And I still buy a paper most days. And it influences my opinions.
The hacks who work for the national newspapers, TV and radio have different values and don't care about the story they are writing and are more interested in filling space in what they see as a readable interesting way rather than informing accurately.
The point that really worries me is that I can see how wrong they get a story when I know what happened. But I still read the other 99.99 per cent of stories and have to accept what I read. And I still buy a paper most days. And it influences my opinions.
I think we should also remember that the journalists themselves are harried by a stack of bastards right up to THE EDITOR himself to get more profit-increasing punch. There is a vast difference between a "Writers' Paper" like the Guardian or, back in the pre-Murdoch day, The Times, or the Washington Post, and the Sun. Not only is the Sun a whizz-bang-bull**** bigoted tabloid, it is also terribly authoritarian. Any pro writer will tell you that what they file on a paper like that has surprisingly little to do with what gets printed after it has passed through a subeditor and a section editor and the news editor and possibly even the editor himself. And it is one of those who will write the headline. We all loathe management who demand that we endanger our professional standards - the journalists have bastard bosses too, and they have all seen stories of theirs twisted and ****ed up by the paper for commercial reasons or the Boss's political views.
Being turned into a liar without knowing it must be pretty bad.
Being turned into a liar without knowing it must be pretty bad.
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Steamchicken:
You are entirely wrong in differentiating between The Guardian and The Sun in terms of the amount of drivel they generate. The only difference is that The Sun does it in eight pars, The Guardian in eighty. They both exist to drive their own agendas and make some money, and the journalists on the so-called "writers' paper" are as puerile and ill-informed as those on the red-tops.
There are good journalists, but they are one per cent of the rabble.
Incidentally, BA has excellent relationships with most newspapers, but their PR efforts are geared towards financial journalism and political lobbying. Where it matters, they limit themselves to blanking enquiries with the no-passengers-were-put-at-risk mantra.
You are entirely wrong in differentiating between The Guardian and The Sun in terms of the amount of drivel they generate. The only difference is that The Sun does it in eight pars, The Guardian in eighty. They both exist to drive their own agendas and make some money, and the journalists on the so-called "writers' paper" are as puerile and ill-informed as those on the red-tops.
There are good journalists, but they are one per cent of the rabble.
Incidentally, BA has excellent relationships with most newspapers, but their PR efforts are geared towards financial journalism and political lobbying. Where it matters, they limit themselves to blanking enquiries with the no-passengers-were-put-at-risk mantra.
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See the G MONX thread about the article on this aircraft in the Sunday Times by their "insight" team. This team is supposed to be highly respected for it's journalistic work, but I'm afraid that if they are amongst the best in the media then the rest must be unspeakably dire, judging by the poor quality of the article in question.
I know professionals in other fields who have tried to co-operate with journalists only to have their efforts spurned in infalmmatory and sensationalist articles. Unless the press and media start cleaning up their act and start reporting events such as these in a more balanced and factual manner, then they will receive a great deal less co-operation in future, and that will not be healthy.
It is for the media to act; after all, reporting events is their living, not ours. They would be well advised not to bite the hand that feeds.
I know professionals in other fields who have tried to co-operate with journalists only to have their efforts spurned in infalmmatory and sensationalist articles. Unless the press and media start cleaning up their act and start reporting events such as these in a more balanced and factual manner, then they will receive a great deal less co-operation in future, and that will not be healthy.
It is for the media to act; after all, reporting events is their living, not ours. They would be well advised not to bite the hand that feeds.
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Kalium Chloride for President.
Woodman you're right in most respects, but wrong in one. I am a news editor for a daily national newspaper. The other week I was offered a story about a run-around but I spiked it because I knew that to run it would be pointless and irresponsible. Oh, and the source of the story was a senior airport worker. Having said that, I agree with you; good to see you still buy papers.
Woodman you're right in most respects, but wrong in one. I am a news editor for a daily national newspaper. The other week I was offered a story about a run-around but I spiked it because I knew that to run it would be pointless and irresponsible. Oh, and the source of the story was a senior airport worker.
Having said that, I agree with you; good to see you still buy papers.
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Run-Around ????????
There rests the case for the defence.
Don't forget, many 'Senior Airport Workers' have absolutely nothing to do with aircraft except perhaps to have a vague idea of what they look like.
There rests the case for the defence.
Don't forget, many 'Senior Airport Workers' have absolutely nothing to do with aircraft except perhaps to have a vague idea of what they look like.
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FlapsOne the senior airport worker was one of the airport managers and a key figure at BAA which is why I was not more specific. I am actually capable of remembering that airport workers - a broad term - will have varying degrees of knowledge about aviation. I do hope your keen understanding of semantics is put to good use, because it certainly wasn't in your post.
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Fair point ND,
We all know the pressure on ATC is now greater than at any other time.
When you consider the fact that if a tower controller doesn't achieve the 'required' number of movements per hour he's going to get a phone call because this costs the airport operator big bucks over a year. This puts controllers under pressure and that puts us under pressure.
How many times a week do you sit there on finals saying "is he, isnt he, get that speed back" or something similar. Low go arounds are becoming a much more common event - sadly.
Airport operators are never going to admit to putting controllers or Pilots under pressure. They will always claim safety was never at risk...... I do wonder sometimes!!
TOGA Flaps 5' !!
We all know the pressure on ATC is now greater than at any other time.
When you consider the fact that if a tower controller doesn't achieve the 'required' number of movements per hour he's going to get a phone call because this costs the airport operator big bucks over a year. This puts controllers under pressure and that puts us under pressure.
How many times a week do you sit there on finals saying "is he, isnt he, get that speed back" or something similar. Low go arounds are becoming a much more common event - sadly.
Airport operators are never going to admit to putting controllers or Pilots under pressure. They will always claim safety was never at risk...... I do wonder sometimes!!
TOGA Flaps 5' !!
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ajamieson
I do indeed have a keen understanding of semantics - and the fact that this was an airport manager indicates little to suggest that he/she would have the faintest idea what may or may not have been involved in a go-around......not run-around - that was a tv prog for kids some time ago.
I do indeed have a keen understanding of semantics - and the fact that this was an airport manager indicates little to suggest that he/she would have the faintest idea what may or may not have been involved in a go-around......not run-around - that was a tv prog for kids some time ago.
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Half our airline managers don't know the first thing about an aircraft, why should the airport managers do any better. We even have to put pictures of aircraft on our staff travel website to remind 80% of our staff what an aeroplane loks like!