Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Ryanair fender bender

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Ryanair fender bender

Old 1st Aug 2012, 08:37
  #81 (permalink)  
Oops pardon me
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Manchester England
Posts: 369
At the end of the day you have to ask yourself- If you see an incident out of an aircraft window as a passenger, how far can your protest go if you believe that the safety of the flight is in question?

You must have the right to refuse to fly and be returned to the gate if you honestly believe your life may be put at risk.

Cabin crew CRM must cover this area. Cabin crew should made aware that any reported defect seen on the outside of the aircraft should be immediately reported to the flight deck. It should also be recorded in the cabin crew flight report.
coopervane is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2012, 09:20
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 550
I recall that Nigel in one of his 777's taxied to and took off unintentionally from a very short intersection in St Kitts. Strangely enough, yet again an 'engineer' passenger advised the cabin crew during taxi that the aircraft was taxiing to the wrong runway entry point. Subsequently, a big song and dance was made as to how important it is to heed information eminating from the cabin as a reult of that cock up. It seems that this advice has not penetrated the ethos of Ryanair operations.

BA passengers tried to halt 777 take-off after taxiing error
Los Endos is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2012, 12:18
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 93
On one of (countless) J41 trips, a sealing strip or mastic on the outside of the window I was next to gradually loosened and peeled off over the course of an hour. I told CC who alerted flight deck and on landing was thanked by CC for bringing it to their attention. Now it probably wasn't anything of concern but I didn't know that. The flight deck possibly even had a laugh at the SLF's ignorance.

At least to my face however they treated it seriously and that scores brownie points for me.
NorthernChappie is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2012, 12:35
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Spain
Age: 78
Posts: 487
The captain of the aircraft that hit the 767 was a female
And the relevance of that comment to this thread is . . . ?
Sunnyjohn is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2012, 13:09
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,271
The captain of the aircraft that hit the 767 was a female
And the relevance of that comment to this thread is . . . ?
To instill thought of a sexist and chauvinistic nature. You might not care to say it, but I'm sure plenty have thought it.

...or is this the PC parade float passing by??

Either way both comments are irrelevant to the thread

Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 1st Aug 2012 at 13:10.
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2012, 14:00
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Spain
Age: 78
Posts: 487
You're right - both comments are irrelevant but
You might not care to say it, but I'm sure plenty have thought it.
How sad. We have come nowhere in a thousand years.
Sunnyjohn is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2012, 15:10
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Luberon
Age: 68
Posts: 914
Originally Posted by coopervane View Post
You must have the right to refuse to fly and be returned to the gate if you honestly believe your life may be put at risk.
Remove your seat belt, stand up and refuse to get back into your seat while taxying. That action will practically ensure a return to gate.......but you had better be damn sure that you are in the right.
sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 04:33
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by Callsign Kilo View Post
To instill thought of a sexist and chauvinistic nature. You might not care to say it, but I'm sure plenty have thought it.

...or is this the PC parade float passing by??

Either way both comments are irrelevant to the thread
If she WAS a female, what is she now? Has she been gender-reassigned as part of her demotion to FO?
david1300 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 07:14
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London
Posts: 516
but you had better be damn sure that you are in the right.
Why 'had' you better be in the right? Surely any professional pilot/commander would be grateful that a passenger had drawn to her/his attention something that may threaten the safety of the flight, even if it transpired that the cause for alarm was ungrounded? Even if it causes a delay/inconvenience. Better to arrive late and alive than dead on time, surely?

Last edited by Nicholas49; 2nd Aug 2012 at 07:14.
Nicholas49 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 07:20
  #90 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,582
The topic of 'what to do' as a pax was thoroughly explored on the thread about the Spanair Madrid crash where someone pointed out that a certain type/types? might correctly take-off without flap. It is an interesting thought. What to do then? There is a line between having every T D & H stopping a flight and a 'qualified' observer doing it.
BOAC is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 07:51
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Milano
Age: 49
Posts: 461
Well, I'm sure no crew would be happy to be delayed by a nervous pax who thinks the wings will "fall off" because they're flexing up and down at every bump in the pavement. If you actually act in a way that will force a return to gate for no good reason you might end up being escorted off premises by the police and later charged.

If you clearly witnessed a collision with another aircraft or ground structure or actually saw a piece fall off the wing than by all means act as crazy as you can in order to prevent the plane from taking off, even if you are not in a position to evaluate whether there was any actual damage and to what extent the damage might interfere with the safe operation of the aircraft. Any such occurrence needs to be properly investigated prior to the aircraft being returned to service. You cannot be blamed if upon later inspection it is determined that there was no damage or the extent of the damage did not make the aircraft unairworthy.

Last edited by Dg800; 2nd Aug 2012 at 07:53.
Dg800 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 09:56
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,390
And to the person who said it was normal to have full opposite deflection of the ailerons - well that may be. But I've been on a large number of DC-9 flights and never saw that before. And they did pull out of line. Whatever, it did no harm to just calmly point and speak out. Maybe it did some good.
In general, full opposite deflection of ailerons is preferable to full deflection in the same direction.
Good on them for pulling out of line, I would do the same if somebody told me I had a problem with my aircraft. Not sure why they thought running flaps in and out would cure an aileron problem, maybe just do something to calm down an anxious passenger?

Elevators work the same way:

ManaAdaSystem is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 10:33
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 169
In 1990 several of us heard a noise from the top of the cabin of a BA 747 as it taxied at San Francisco airport.
It was a bang and then sounded like something was rolling around in for want of a better word the ceiling of the cabin.
The cabin crew were informed and one of them spoke to I presume the flight deck via the intercom. However the plane
just kept going but when it got to the end of the runway, lined up for take off it did it again. The intercom was used again
but the result was we just took off anyway and no announcement was made, all the cabin crew person said was "everything is in order"
There were several other slightly concerned passengers as well as myself but we all felt we had better just shut up and not say anything more.
As we landed it did it again but as we were safe on the ground no-one said a word.
Nervous SLF is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 13:45
  #94 (permalink)  
A4

Ut Sementem Feeceris
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,926
Ok, I'm curious now. Why would the MD-8x have opposite deflecting elevators? This is a fly by REAL wires aircraft so I'm surprised that the mechanicals allow this deflection to occur. The picture shows a taxiing aircraft with flaps deployed so all hydraulic systems would be pressurised.... I'd call it if I saw that.

As previously mentioned, I remember seeing a F100 commence the take-off role and I commented to my Capt that he was clean (the F100...) and quick as a flash he said "aircraft rolling, check flap" to which they replied "thanks, we take-off clean".

If you see something as a pax or a crew you MUST highlight it. Period.
A4 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 14:06
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 3,693
As ManaAdaSystem stated in his post #57, the ailerons and elevators on the DC-9 were operated by tabs so they could be hanging anywhere on the ground.

I flew the Short Belfast for many years and all of our control surfaces were controlled by servo tabs. So, when we took the control locks out, the rudder would normally follow whatever the surface wind was doing, both ailerons normally fell down and the elevators could be anywhere.

This used to cause all sorts of calls from the folks outside. On one occasion I was told several times by the aircraft behind me that both of my ailerons were hanging down. "Thank you" said I. "Are you going to go flying like that"? "Indeed we are" said I. Silence from behind.

All surfaces would normally streamline at 90 knots on take-off.

Last edited by JW411; 2nd Aug 2012 at 14:06.
JW411 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 14:12
  #96 (permalink)  
A4

Ut Sementem Feeceris
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,926
All surfaces would normally streamline at 90 knots on take-off.


Any occasions when they didn't?

Last edited by A4; 2nd Aug 2012 at 14:13.
A4 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 15:22
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 3,693
Not that I remember; we had five control surface position indicators on the captain's glareshield so a quick glance would show where they all were.
JW411 is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 16:19
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: U K
Posts: 469
A4, Yea, i flew the F100 for a few years and we regularly took off with no flap. It was quite common for the one behind to mention it to us as we lined up.
BALLSOUT is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 16:26
  #99 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,582
Yes, those 'little Fokkers' caused a fair bit of confusion in the early days at LGW, what with random elevator positions, anti-cols that looked like strobes, no flap - all too difficult.
BOAC is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2012, 16:29
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 3,693
At the risk of being banned for thread drift, there was a great story doing the rounds some years ago about a USAF C-130 taxiing for take-off behind a LH 747 at Frankfurt.

The C-130 called the 747 on Frankfurt Ground and asked him to call back on 123.45. The C-130 was told in no uncertain terms that LH did not use unauthorised frequencies.

"Fine" said the C-130, "I just wanted to tell you that you still have your gear pins fitted"!

Last edited by JW411; 2nd Aug 2012 at 16:30.
JW411 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.