Ryanair fender bender
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Yes, those 'little Fokkers' caused a fair bit of confusion in the early days at LGW, what with random elevator positions, anti-cols that looked like strobes, no flap - all too difficult.
At the risk of being banned for thread drift, there was a great story doing the rounds some years ago about a USAF C-130 taxiing for take-off behind a LH 747 at Frankfurt.
The C-130 called the 747 on Frankfurt Ground and asked him to call back on 123.45. The C-130 was told in no uncertain terms that LH did not use unauthorised frequencies.
"Fine" said the C-130, "I just wanted to tell you that you still have your gear pins fitted"!
The C-130 called the 747 on Frankfurt Ground and asked him to call back on 123.45. The C-130 was told in no uncertain terms that LH did not use unauthorised frequencies.
"Fine" said the C-130, "I just wanted to tell you that you still have your gear pins fitted"!
Last edited by JW411; 2nd Aug 2012 at 16:30.
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Hey nervous SLF
To ease your state of mind: there aren't many things that will bring down a jet after take-off, certainly not things that make rumbling noises behind ceiling panels.
What will bring down a jet are flaps, trim or lack of flightcontrols. These are often referred to as "killer items".
I understand your anxiety about the noises you but you shouldn't worry about them.
What will kill you is a wrong setting of flaps or stabilizer (which was hit by the Ryanair), hence the discussion here.
In 1990 several of us heard a noise from the top of the cabin of a BA 747 as it taxied at San Francisco airport.
What will bring down a jet are flaps, trim or lack of flightcontrols. These are often referred to as "killer items".
I understand your anxiety about the noises you but you shouldn't worry about them.
What will kill you is a wrong setting of flaps or stabilizer (which was hit by the Ryanair), hence the discussion here.
I'm convinced something got lost in the translation.
There is no way any pilot, regardless of status, would ignore a collision report and carry on without a just to be sure check...
Tell me I right here...
There is no way any pilot, regardless of status, would ignore a collision report and carry on without a just to be sure check...
Tell me I right here...
I'm convinced something got lost in the translation.
There is no way any pilot, regardless of status, would ignore a collision report and carry on without a just to be sure check...
There is no way any pilot, regardless of status, would ignore a collision report and carry on without a just to be sure check...
Ryanair employ a multiplicity of crews from many different cultures/backgrounds/countries. Nothing wrong with that but although flightdeck are required to prove proficiency in English to a certain standard as par of licence renewal there is, as far as I am aware, no legal requirement for cabin crew.
I am sure if this Captain had received a CLEAR unambiguous message that their aircraft had been in collision with another aircraft AND that there was suspected damage the outcome would have been different.
Am not blaming any individuals here - this incident was a product of the "system" and includes elements of minimal experience (FO), lack of training, culture, language etc
although flightdeck are required to prove proficiency in English to a certain standard as par of licence renewal there is, as far as I am aware, no legal requirement for cabin crew
From the report:
"They [the passengers] were speaking in Spanish, so the cabin crew did not understand very well what they were saying."
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Not Foolproof
autoflight Quote:- "No need to stand up or open door/blow slide. Just claim chest pain with suspected heart attack. Anyone have a better way to stop the departure?"
Generally, one would hope that this would work.
However if you read the "Corpse on Plane" posts in the African Aviation Forum (dated 2nd July 2012), this might not have any effect if you are flying KLM - allegedly.
Generally, one would hope that this would work.
However if you read the "Corpse on Plane" posts in the African Aviation Forum (dated 2nd July 2012), this might not have any effect if you are flying KLM - allegedly.
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ASFKAP Quote:- "I doubt this incident even happened....
I've just had a look on the 'News' section on Ryanair.com and they make no mention of it....."
You weren't seriously expecting an airline (any airline) to publish its errors, misdemeanours, poor PR, complaints, ATC violations etc. etc. on their website?
Or were you?
Since you looked at the airline in question's website, was there any denial of the alleged incident?
I've just had a look on the 'News' section on Ryanair.com and they make no mention of it.....
"You weren't seriously expecting an airline (any airline) to publish its errors, misdemeanours, poor PR, complaints, ATC violations etc. etc. on their website?
Or were you?
Since you looked at the airline in question's website, was there any denial of the alleged incident?
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Obviously it's sarcasm. It's just unfunny and contributes nothing. Perhaps there could be a separate thread into which all this kind of garbage gets binned, allowing the grown ups to discuss grown up matters unimpeded.
On the heart attack ploy -- I guess the question is whether you'd trust your life a possibly damaged aircraft or to a piece of automatic defibrillator software.
Last edited by Chu Chu; 4th Aug 2012 at 13:59.
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Yes A4 all reports filed at work will also go to the IAA!
Maybe someone in the know could comment?
Just a few weeks ago, I was sitting aboard one of FRs competitors (as SLF) when we had taxied just short of the holding point. After aileron and spoiler checks were done (twice on the Airbus) I noted no flap or slat deployment.
I immediately undid my belt and went to the back of the aircraft as it was the nearest to me and told one of the cabin crew. He immediately told me to get back to my seat and I said no, not until he called the flight deck to let them know of my concern. He duly made the call and indeed, half way through the call - control surfaces were deployed.
After the flight, I was called to the flight deck to chat with the flightdeck crew. They had selected flaps after engine 1 start but they had not deployed until much later- something I had not seen before. The crew duly thanked me and said they would inform maintenance immediately.
I didn't fancy a short flight on a full A320 ISA+15 with no flaps/slats selected for take off!!
I immediately undid my belt and went to the back of the aircraft as it was the nearest to me and told one of the cabin crew. He immediately told me to get back to my seat and I said no, not until he called the flight deck to let them know of my concern. He duly made the call and indeed, half way through the call - control surfaces were deployed.
After the flight, I was called to the flight deck to chat with the flightdeck crew. They had selected flaps after engine 1 start but they had not deployed until much later- something I had not seen before. The crew duly thanked me and said they would inform maintenance immediately.
I didn't fancy a short flight on a full A320 ISA+15 with no flaps/slats selected for take off!!
Whilst I'm not against SLF questioning genuine problems such as a collision, you can rest assured that regardless of the temperature there were plenty of things in place to catch this error.
The TO Config push button would have sounded a warning when pressed and if the crew had forgotten to press the config check button the warning would have sounded as soon as the thrust levers were advanced for takeoff. Also the before takeoff checklist would have a check of the flap setting, and a check of the take off memo both of which would have identified the error.
I would imagine that there must be many daily occurrences worldwide of pilots forgetting to set the flaps and they're always caught by the many checks that are in place. I know that accidents have occurred in the past and taking off without flaps would most likely be fatal, however pilots are human beings, they will make mistakes or omissions and there are systems in place to catch those errors or omissions.
I should also point out that in some cases (Contaminated taxyway, or remote deicing) it's SOP for some A320 operators to leave the flaps retracted until lining up.
Being type rated on the A320 I wouldn't be getting out of my seat had I observed the same thing as you. If we got as far as lining up on the runway I would start getting concerned and take some action, but only then.
I also agree with BOAC, the pilots were fobbing you off, they simply forgot to set the flaps.
Out of interest have you ever flown on a Dash 8 Q400? They line up with their spoilers extended, that was a little concerning the first time I saw it. Lucky they retract the moment the take off roll is commenced.
Last edited by Sky Wave; 5th Aug 2012 at 11:36.
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It doesn't always work out well for us though, you only have to look at the building industry, the banking industry and at some point in the future the aviation industry....
For all the people advocating that the average passenger will start some sort of mutiny because 'they think something isn't quite right,' perhaps here is some food for thought: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...takes-off.html