Ryanair fender bender
One night taxying in at Baku I wasn't happy with wingtip clearance.
ATC was getting stroppy, the 'Follow Me' was driving in circles in front of us (no kidding) and our station manager whom I'd permitted to sit on the flight deck (never again) was loudly telling me that there was plenty of room.
Of course only one opinion counted and we moved slowly forward when I decided that it was OK to proceed.
Once had locals jumping up and down and shouting over a cargo door problem in Spain. Again, we went when engineering control and I had both agreed that it was safe to do so.
Never be pressurised into taking an avoidable chance.
ATC was getting stroppy, the 'Follow Me' was driving in circles in front of us (no kidding) and our station manager whom I'd permitted to sit on the flight deck (never again) was loudly telling me that there was plenty of room.
Of course only one opinion counted and we moved slowly forward when I decided that it was OK to proceed.
Once had locals jumping up and down and shouting over a cargo door problem in Spain. Again, we went when engineering control and I had both agreed that it was safe to do so.
Never be pressurised into taking an avoidable chance.
The old art of opening the window to check seems to have gone, eh, out the window
Ut Sementem Feeceris
@BALLSOUT - not always No 2 first....
The approved procedure for single engine taxi on the narrow body Airbus is to start ENG1 first. If you are then going to taxi on one engine the electric pump is switched on to pressurise the yellow system and the flaps are deployed. If you decide not to taxi on one engine (slot cnx etc) then you start No2, after starts and off you go.
On another note, I'd love to a picture of the underside of the 767's stabiliser!
The approved procedure for single engine taxi on the narrow body Airbus is to start ENG1 first. If you are then going to taxi on one engine the electric pump is switched on to pressurise the yellow system and the flaps are deployed. If you decide not to taxi on one engine (slot cnx etc) then you start No2, after starts and off you go.
On another note, I'd love to a picture of the underside of the 767's stabiliser!
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First, as Mr. Reid has already pointed out (and as I've pillaged from), you can consult the official report for pictures of the damage.
According to the report, the Captain of the Prestwick overrun on December 23, 2009, was 33 years old and had 5,557 hours (1,832 on type). The Barcelona report gives both Captain and F/O hours, apparently rounding off to the nearest 5. The Captain there (15 and 2/3 months later) was 34 years old and had 6500 hours (2215 on type). The F/O had 750 hours (500 on type).
According to the report, the Captain of the Prestwick overrun on December 23, 2009, was 33 years old and had 5,557 hours (1,832 on type). The Barcelona report gives both Captain and F/O hours, apparently rounding off to the nearest 5. The Captain there (15 and 2/3 months later) was 34 years old and had 6500 hours (2215 on type). The F/O had 750 hours (500 on type).
Originally Posted by LGW Vulture
Just a few weeks ago, I was sitting aboard one of FRs competitors (as SLF) when we had taxied just short of the holding point. After aileron and spoiler checks were done (twice on the Airbus) I noted no flap or slat deployment.
Originally Posted by BOAC
By the way, you said
"They had selected flaps after engine 1 start" which is NOT normal procedure.
"They had selected flaps after engine 1 start" which is NOT normal procedure.
Originally Posted by BALLSOUT
BOAC. Engine start order on a two engine aircraft. first you start engine 2, then you start engine 1.
The OETD goes roughly like this:
- Start 1.
- Set the flaps.
- Taxi around the airport.
- Start 2 while taxiing.
- Do the after start checks (while taxiing).
So, they probably forgot to set the flaps (easily done, given that for years we have all been setting flaps after second engine start) and had not yet got to doing the checks (sometimes delayed until you are stopped, so you are not both eyes down while driving).
Some of us have concerns about OETD, because it changes the order of everything (causing errors like, er, forgetting the flaps) and because it has both of you doing lots of checks when driving (causing wingtip crunching errors, or worse).
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Yes, but to deliver equus sh*te about "They had selected flaps after engine 1 start but they had not deployed until much later" to the enquiring and alert pax.....................
Is it possible in OETD to fail to select the appropriate hyd system for flaps?
Is it possible in OETD to fail to select the appropriate hyd system for flaps?
Last edited by BOAC; 31st Jul 2012 at 19:48.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Is it possible in OETD to fail to select the appropriate hyd system for flaps?
Edited colour correction
Last edited by A4; 31st Jul 2012 at 21:34.
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Please don't get it into the heads of the spotters that frequent these forums that it's okay to blow the slides with the engines running. If the masters aren't cut in time and they choose the "wrong" doors then it's game over.
Please don't get it into the heads of the spotters that frequent these forums that it's okay to blow the slides with the engines running. If the masters aren't cut in time and they choose the "wrong" doors then it's game over.
But, given an aircraft that has become potentially unairworthy and a crew who don't appear to give a toss, you can't deny that blowing the slide would be a pretty good way of getting their attention and making sure the aircraft wasn't going anywhere.
What would you have done instead ?
What to say or do in the heat of the moment?
As a passenger, I mean. Like the Spanish passengers on the 738. Note that much is made of one of them being an engineer. Wow, says a lot for the airline view of the traveling public. Popping a slide as Agaricus bisporus suggests would seem a bit over the top for a non-pilot so, what do you do? Stand up in the aisle and refuse to sit down, knowing you'll probably look ridiculous or hysteric at some stage? Or sit back and cross your fingers.
That's what I did - sit back and hope for the best - somewhere back in the 1980s on a VASP 732 when I realised we were taking off with zero flaps. Rio to Sao Paulo, a connecting flight for Lufthansa. Then, there was just no time: a very fast taxi and zoom off we went and quite a rattling experience it was. I wonder what I would do today in similar circumstances.
But in this thread's particular case what seems almost criminally negligent is not that the 738 departed, but that its crew did not contact the AA flight directly to say "look, we passed very close to you and there may have been contact". If in doubt, etc.
That's what I did - sit back and hope for the best - somewhere back in the 1980s on a VASP 732 when I realised we were taking off with zero flaps. Rio to Sao Paulo, a connecting flight for Lufthansa. Then, there was just no time: a very fast taxi and zoom off we went and quite a rattling experience it was. I wonder what I would do today in similar circumstances.
But in this thread's particular case what seems almost criminally negligent is not that the 738 departed, but that its crew did not contact the AA flight directly to say "look, we passed very close to you and there may have been contact". If in doubt, etc.
Last edited by broadreach; 31st Jul 2012 at 22:36.
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Red bit - moves up and down a lot
Yellow bit - moves up and down, but not so much, and occasionally gets hit by passing aircraft
Yellow bit - moves up and down, but not so much, and occasionally gets hit by passing aircraft
Really??
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Too bad someone was not paying attention on NWA 255. By a strange coincidence, my little adventure happened in the same place, DET. As I was debating with myself over pointing out to the attendant what could have been a problem, I had that in mind.
And to the person who said it was normal to have full opposite deflection of the ailerons - well that may be. But I've been on a large number of DC-9 flights and never saw that before. And they did pull out of line. Whatever, it did no harm to just calmly point and speak out. Maybe it did some good.
And to the person who said it was normal to have full opposite deflection of the ailerons - well that may be. But I've been on a large number of DC-9 flights and never saw that before. And they did pull out of line. Whatever, it did no harm to just calmly point and speak out. Maybe it did some good.
Last edited by deSitter; 1st Aug 2012 at 00:32.
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So, you are suggesting that the yellow bit is the bit damaged in the photo??
Aircraft N592HA (2003 Boeing 767-3CB C/N 33468) Photo by Francisco Undiks (Photo ID: AC116797)
My apologies...What is an OETD start-up...OETD stands for?
I google it without sucess, my bad.
I google it without sucess, my bad.
Last edited by JanetFlight; 1st Aug 2012 at 03:33.
OETD means one engine taxy departure. we are permitted to start no 1 engine, start taxying to the runway and then start the other engine (no 2) before take off. there has to be a 2 minute warm up period from when the 2nd engine is stable before take off power is applied.