4 Ryanair aircraft declare fuel emergency at same time
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I was there.
The weather was bad, the controllers wern't of any help, BUT it was so pedictable.
You need 15-20 min extra anyhow at that time and with the forecast it was clear you needed another 45min for weather.
I was amazed when I heard (amongst others) a KLM arriving on the approach frequency with 5 (yes 5 min) of extra fuel... Do you continue to your destination with 5 min extra when the ATIS says "heavy TS overhead, airport closed"???
People started diverting to ALC and VLC. After a while VLC was not available anymore because it was saturated. People had to divert as far as BCN.
When the airport reopened there was a nice tailwind causing some go arounds, so they changed runways.
We held for 1 hour and landed.
The weather was bad, the controllers wern't of any help, BUT it was so pedictable.
You need 15-20 min extra anyhow at that time and with the forecast it was clear you needed another 45min for weather.
I was amazed when I heard (amongst others) a KLM arriving on the approach frequency with 5 (yes 5 min) of extra fuel... Do you continue to your destination with 5 min extra when the ATIS says "heavy TS overhead, airport closed"???
People started diverting to ALC and VLC. After a while VLC was not available anymore because it was saturated. People had to divert as far as BCN.
When the airport reopened there was a nice tailwind causing some go arounds, so they changed runways.
We held for 1 hour and landed.
Last edited by sarah737; 27th Jul 2012 at 20:12.
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Fantom
Sorry, your talking utter rubbish.
Committing to land at your destination (with 'landing assured') is perfectly legal, provided you land with final reserve fuel. It's makes perfect common sense to most and is in most airlines part A and as such is available to pilots as part of their inflight fuel planning options.
BTW Runways being blocked etc etc has nothing to to with the definition of 'landing assured' - unless, of course it was blocked already...
Sorry, your talking utter rubbish.
Committing to land at your destination (with 'landing assured') is perfectly legal, provided you land with final reserve fuel. It's makes perfect common sense to most and is in most airlines part A and as such is available to pilots as part of their inflight fuel planning options.
BTW Runways being blocked etc etc has nothing to to with the definition of 'landing assured' - unless, of course it was blocked already...
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I was speaking to friends on one of the diverted flights ,one is a Twotter pilot and the other a glider..WX was apparrently pretty rotten ,, felt like him to windshear and all sorts on short final before go around ( I dropped in today to see if any incident had been reported based on his account of how hairy the approach got ) . They held for about 30 minutes and legged it for Valencia eventually. Know its beside the point in terms of fuel and whatever but thought i would post.
Bravo, sarah737 good on you! Those FR pilots would certainly wish that you get to be their chief / management pilot.
This really is a no brainer.
MAD controllers really are the worst in Europe. Everyone knows that.
MAD PLOG - ALWAYS add 300kgs. Reason - crap ATC.
Spain at its best, not!
MAD controllers really are the worst in Europe. Everyone knows that.
MAD PLOG - ALWAYS add 300kgs. Reason - crap ATC.
Spain at its best, not!
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Who says they were low on gas? The PIC can declare min/emer fuel anytime he wants, a long ways away from the airport.
Unless you stick your head in the cockpit and check the gas gauge you won't really know. If they declared emer fuel, and burnt into the minimum fuel required, they'll get nailed, as the emer fuel call generates reports, and scrutiny.
The Ryan Air Capt's might be more aggressive than others and simply assured traffic priority once it appeared approach control was having a hard time.
Unless you stick your head in the cockpit and check the gas gauge you won't really know. If they declared emer fuel, and burnt into the minimum fuel required, they'll get nailed, as the emer fuel call generates reports, and scrutiny.
The Ryan Air Capt's might be more aggressive than others and simply assured traffic priority once it appeared approach control was having a hard time.
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Did they declare minimum fuel advisory or the full blown fuel emergency Mayday? Two different situations altogether!
Last edited by gerago; 27th Jul 2012 at 23:44.
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Icelanta opines....
It's not a Company problem.... it's a PIC problem that puts company fuel policies before operational needs. One can choose to divert before they reach "Bingo Fuel" too.
This is a proof that Minimum fuel policies are a safety risk that no PIC should accept. period.
Psychophysiological entity
We see a lot on these threads about a pilot's legal culpability. Prison sentences are handed out to some who annoy some Mediterranean judges. Well, when the big one happens due to low fuel - and it will - in this united Europe of ours, perhaps the long arm of litigation should reach out to the 
who 'ordered' the departure fuel while sitting on their fat backsides in some office back at the departure points.
Undue pressure on the captain. Career threats. Plain, "If you don't like it, get another job" threats. It's no uses saying the young skipper should have the balls to resist. Real life is not like that.
who 'ordered' the departure fuel while sitting on their fat backsides in some office back at the departure points. Undue pressure on the captain. Career threats. Plain, "If you don't like it, get another job" threats. It's no uses saying the young skipper should have the balls to resist. Real life is not like that.
Originally Posted by fly4bux777
The Ryan Air Capt's might be more aggressive than others and simply assured traffic priority once it appeared approach control was having a hard time.
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It is for sure not god if an FR capt need to carry exstra fuel,he will get to the bottom of the fuel leage competetion and a serius talk with his base commander why hé is in the bottom of the list and that hé must dó better next time...
Imagine what kind of pressure this fuel leage competetion gives to the capt. !!
Dó you realy think hé Will take exstra fuel in case of bad weather ? NO he dont whant to be on the bottom of the fuel leage competetion !!!
I think this kind of competetin only exsist in Ryanair.. Amature Company !!
Imagine what kind of pressure this fuel leage competetion gives to the capt. !!
Dó you realy think hé Will take exstra fuel in case of bad weather ? NO he dont whant to be on the bottom of the fuel leage competetion !!!
I think this kind of competetin only exsist in Ryanair.. Amature Company !!
Fuel league is a joke!
When I was with FR (happily not now!) always said I'd rather be at the bottom of the league having made all the right operational fuel decisions.
Bear in mind the Company is run under a culture of fear (from the man at the top) and some of the workforce have bought into the principal of "We were only following orders".
If ever there was a reason for unionisation this issue must surely be it.
IMHO it's just a matter of time before there is a big bang.
When I was with FR (happily not now!) always said I'd rather be at the bottom of the league having made all the right operational fuel decisions.
Bear in mind the Company is run under a culture of fear (from the man at the top) and some of the workforce have bought into the principal of "We were only following orders".
If ever there was a reason for unionisation this issue must surely be it.
IMHO it's just a matter of time before there is a big bang.
C/s kilo
Think it was a bit of thread drift. I would only use my diversion fuel if due to airport congestion, and a so called agreement from the destination atc about estimated landing times. It's not just my decision.
However sometimes you just got to make a decision. Early European summers
Bloody t/s everywhere,
Think it was a bit of thread drift. I would only use my diversion fuel if due to airport congestion, and a so called agreement from the destination atc about estimated landing times. It's not just my decision.
However sometimes you just got to make a decision. Early European summers
Bloody t/s everywhere,
Oops pardon me
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In my day the regs said trip fuel allowing for upper winds and weather etc plus diversion fuel plus 30 minutes holding. Extra fuel was carried within the available weight limit at the discretion if the Captain. A bit for inaccuracies in weather predictions and a bit for mum !!
If you did divert and had used your holding fuel, then when you were making your approach there wasn't a great deal left in the tanks.
The decision to divert should always be made as early as possible and once the decision has been made go straight to the alternate. Never turn back and better to hold at the alternate than wait at the original destination in the hope things may get better. May not be an airlines way of priority but will sure be the safer option.
Take it from me. I have experienced this for real.
Coops
If you did divert and had used your holding fuel, then when you were making your approach there wasn't a great deal left in the tanks.
The decision to divert should always be made as early as possible and once the decision has been made go straight to the alternate. Never turn back and better to hold at the alternate than wait at the original destination in the hope things may get better. May not be an airlines way of priority but will sure be the safer option.
Take it from me. I have experienced this for real.
Coops
