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4 Ryanair aircraft declare fuel emergency at same time

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4 Ryanair aircraft declare fuel emergency at same time

Old 27th Jul 2012, 20:15
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Fantom

Sorry, your talking utter rubbish.

Committing to land at your destination (with 'landing assured') is perfectly legal, provided you land with final reserve fuel. It's makes perfect common sense to most and is in most airlines part A and as such is available to pilots as part of their inflight fuel planning options.

BTW Runways being blocked etc etc has nothing to to with the definition of 'landing assured' - unless, of course it was blocked already...
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Old 27th Jul 2012, 20:39
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I was speaking to friends on one of the diverted flights ,one is a Twotter pilot and the other a glider..WX was apparrently pretty rotten ,, felt like him to windshear and all sorts on short final before go around ( I dropped in today to see if any incident had been reported based on his account of how hairy the approach got ) . They held for about 30 minutes and legged it for Valencia eventually. Know its beside the point in terms of fuel and whatever but thought i would post.
If what paidworker wrote is correct, it is perfectly legit and professionally kosher. Due to the large numbers of diversions and less than perfect ATC coordination, these FR pilots may have had to play safe and declared minimum fuel. I don't think they had declared " emergency " fuel condition which would have entailed MAYDAY calls. A lousy day it was; in hindsight, they should have taken more fuel, yada, yada, yada...that's Monday morning quarterback stuff. Those pilots will certainly learn from this episode.

Bravo, sarah737 good on you! Those FR pilots would certainly wish that you get to be their chief / management pilot.
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Old 27th Jul 2012, 20:51
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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This really is a no brainer.

MAD controllers really are the worst in Europe. Everyone knows that.

MAD PLOG - ALWAYS add 300kgs. Reason - crap ATC.

Spain at its best, not!
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Old 27th Jul 2012, 20:53
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Keep it simple...CBs half an hour minimum extra...Mad on a good day half an hour extra on top of that!
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Old 27th Jul 2012, 22:11
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Committed to stay

Can anyone direct me to the JAR's "Committed to stay" rule?

Thanks!
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Old 27th Jul 2012, 22:11
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Who says they were low on gas? The PIC can declare min/emer fuel anytime he wants, a long ways away from the airport.

Unless you stick your head in the cockpit and check the gas gauge you won't really know. If they declared emer fuel, and burnt into the minimum fuel required, they'll get nailed, as the emer fuel call generates reports, and scrutiny.

The Ryan Air Capt's might be more aggressive than others and simply assured traffic priority once it appeared approach control was having a hard time.
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Old 27th Jul 2012, 23:43
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Did they declare minimum fuel advisory or the full blown fuel emergency Mayday? Two different situations altogether!

Last edited by gerago; 27th Jul 2012 at 23:44.
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 00:09
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Icelanta opines....
This is a proof that Minimum fuel policies are a safety risk that no PIC should accept. period.
It's not a Company problem.... it's a PIC problem that puts company fuel policies before operational needs. One can choose to divert before they reach "Bingo Fuel" too.
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 00:46
  #29 (permalink)  
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We see a lot on these threads about a pilot's legal culpability. Prison sentences are handed out to some who annoy some Mediterranean judges. Well, when the big one happens due to low fuel - and it will - in this united Europe of ours, perhaps the long arm of litigation should reach out to the who 'ordered' the departure fuel while sitting on their fat backsides in some office back at the departure points.

Undue pressure on the captain. Career threats. Plain, "If you don't like it, get another job" threats. It's no uses saying the young skipper should have the balls to resist. Real life is not like that.
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 04:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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In order of importance, there's commercial sense, common sense and then airmanship.
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 04:36
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fly4bux777
The Ryan Air Capt's might be more aggressive than others and simply assured traffic priority once it appeared approach control was having a hard time.
I'll try that next time I get held in a queue due to weather...
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 05:41
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Commit to stay

Hey Binzer,

I'm looking for the JAR "committed to stay".
Can you help..?

Thanks!
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 06:46
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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It is for sure not god if an FR capt need to carry exstra fuel,he will get to the bottom of the fuel leage competetion and a serius talk with his base commander why hé is in the bottom of the list and that hé must dó better next time...
Imagine what kind of pressure this fuel leage competetion gives to the capt. !!
Dó you realy think hé Will take exstra fuel in case of bad weather ? NO he dont whant to be on the bottom of the fuel leage competetion !!!

I think this kind of competetin only exsist in Ryanair.. Amature Company !!
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 07:33
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Heard rumors about one of the Ryanair landed in VLC with 450kgs left!!!

Scaaary..
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 07:34
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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..and at the end those who cheat the most win the fuel league anyway
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 07:42
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Fuel league is a joke!

When I was with FR (happily not now!) always said I'd rather be at the bottom of the league having made all the right operational fuel decisions.

Bear in mind the Company is run under a culture of fear (from the man at the top) and some of the workforce have bought into the principal of "We were only following orders".

If ever there was a reason for unionisation this issue must surely be it.

IMHO it's just a matter of time before there is a big bang.
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 08:55
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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C/s kilo

Think it was a bit of thread drift. I would only use my diversion fuel if due to airport congestion, and a so called agreement from the destination atc about estimated landing times. It's not just my decision.

However sometimes you just got to make a decision. Early European summers
Bloody t/s everywhere,
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 09:29
  #38 (permalink)  
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Smile

In my day the regs said trip fuel allowing for upper winds and weather etc plus diversion fuel plus 30 minutes holding. Extra fuel was carried within the available weight limit at the discretion if the Captain. A bit for inaccuracies in weather predictions and a bit for mum !!
If you did divert and had used your holding fuel, then when you were making your approach there wasn't a great deal left in the tanks.
The decision to divert should always be made as early as possible and once the decision has been made go straight to the alternate. Never turn back and better to hold at the alternate than wait at the original destination in the hope things may get better. May not be an airlines way of priority but will sure be the safer option.
Take it from me. I have experienced this for real.
Coops
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Old 28th Jul 2012, 09:31
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Once again, I am sure the SAIR´s/captains report and the subsequent investigation will reveal what actualy happened.
Not if the IAA are involved they won't.......

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Old 28th Jul 2012, 10:21
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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4 Ryanair aircraft had to declare a fuel emergency last night

7) Ryanair crews don't fly around on fumes and I'm expecting yesterday to not have been something as straight forward as just that.
Seems like four of them probably were?

I reckon this is another case of smearing Ryanair pilots as cowboys. If it is, kindly do one.
I dont think so, but you have to question WHY 4 of their aircraft got into the situation where they were all flying with less than final reserve fuel? You have to wonder.
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