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Australian Landing Contextualised

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Australian Landing Contextualised

Old 20th Apr 2012, 08:13
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Have to say, my sheepdog dog Chica, has welcomed me back from a few trips in the past, with a a fine choral barking on finals.
Made the F/O question whether dogs were allowed in J Class!
Now, on our 777's, I am reminded by the Preflight Checklist.."Mobile phones off" so...no excuse!
Far worse than that,... when my daughters secretly changed my ringtone to a very long and difficult raspberry.!...Was nearly thrown out of Borders,.. phone in back pocket..incoming call!...

"It wasn't me!!!..Oh really.....
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 10:41
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Geragau, with the exception of the Firefly incident the rest of the pilots are CAUCASIANS. It ain't nice to post something without reading through or cross- checking what macdo was referring to.
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 18:48
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Oops, my bad!!!

It worked, it worked, it worked but I guess I gotta shut up now before I get banned.
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Old 20th Apr 2012, 18:51
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And here we are being smacked by the CC when our phone is not immediately shut off in the conversation/last e-mail/text...
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Old 21st Apr 2012, 10:14
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Just shows ther ain't nothing new under the sun:

Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Worrying about a measly light bulb in this case.
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Old 22nd Apr 2012, 13:50
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Who hasn't forgotten to turn off his phone and gotten a message during approach, usually "Welcome to xxx, costs etc". What about simply ignoring it and sort it out once at the stand?
I don't think an Aussie pilot or any other pilot outside the USA would have 'gotten' a message.

Just seeing the word is enough to set the hair of some British English speakers on end. Yet, despite the many claims that it is an Americanism, it is most definitely of British origin and the Oxford English Dictionary traces its first use to the 4th century.
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Old 22nd Apr 2012, 14:43
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Some of my brilliant colleagues have installed a fire bell for a ring tone when the wife or scheduling calls. I can see where this is going when the phone rings at 120 knots on the takeoff roll. I've already been treated to an inadvertent demo while taxiing.

Last edited by Airbubba; 23rd Apr 2012 at 01:00.
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Old 24th Apr 2012, 03:13
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I had once a "Woop Woop Pull Up!" as a ringtone....yeah I know...
It did not last long, as I could see the scenario in IMC: "Disregard mate, it's only my cell phone, keep going...."

Still I cannot imagine what is more important on short finals than focusing on handling the aircraft, mind you at 700 feet, even a fire bell would be disregarded (silenced first) and treated as a ground emergency, so why a cell phone buzz is such a priority?

I would call any sim instructor sending me text messages during a check ride a sadistic bastard. This kind of example has been described in instructor courses as the "smiling assassin" model, and surely brings a note of negative training.

As for texting while taxiing or any other phase for that matter, I fully agree it should not be tolerated, but what do you do when it's your flight examiner who is still reading messages while LINING UP on the runway? You know what, I said nothing, when I get my checkride signed, I'll run the ship with what I hope are better standards than him. He switched off the phone after line up. I think we would have had an argument if he hadn't. I am glad I did not have to find out.

Back to the topic, if there was any fatigue aspect, leading to lack of managing priorities, it would be interesting not just to look at the last rest period and declare someone fit, but also getting the broader image of a week or two of duty before the event. Some work patterns though legal can turn a fully functional pilot into a hovering zombie...
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Old 24th Apr 2012, 04:28
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The FO stated that he attempted to use the ‘RAISE’8 method
from the operator’s Operations Manual to communicate with
the captain.
Could somebody please explain what the "RAISE 8" method
is? Would it be elbowing him in the guts?

Captain oughtta be fired.
Yes of course - give him the instant boot. Sack him first, ask
questions later. Do not even ask him for any lessons that he
and/or the Company may've learnt through this event. Don't
even look at his record of service or consider any suspension
without pay of limited duration - just sack sack sack him!
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Old 24th Apr 2012, 07:39
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@Ye Olde Pilot, sorry if i did use the wrong word. English is just one of 5 languages i have to speak and i usually put it as third or fourth most important within the lot. Again, sorry for any mistake.

However, would you argue the point i was trying to make? Receiving text messages (called SMS over here) during flight happens, but it is no reason to rather handle the mobile phone than the airplane during final approach.
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Old 24th Apr 2012, 09:13
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As for texting while taxiing or any other phase for that matter, I fully agree it should not be tolerated, but what do you do when it's your flight examiner who is still reading messages while LINING UP on the runway? You know what, I said nothing, when I get my checkride signed, I'll run the ship with what I hope are better standards than him.
Perhaps the examiner was testing your command authority & confidence? You failed by not telling him to turn his phone off, as per SOP and Commander's safety instruction.

(Note: there is only one commander on any flight, and in our company that person is designated on the flight documentation. For line checks, the designated commander is the person being checked - not the TRE in the right hand seat.)

Could somebody please explain what the "RAISE 8" method is?
I've never heard of "RAISE8" Slash - but in Ansett we had a "guide to appropriate assertion" which ran through five steps:
  1. A comment on a point of difference. e.g. "I think we may be a bit high."
  2. A specific comment on the difference e.g. "We are now 2000' above the descent profile."
  3. The "If ... then" statement, using proper titles e.g. "Captain, if we do not extend the airbrake, then we will be too fast for the approach."
  4. The urgency statement, e.g. "Captain, you must act now! Use the airbrake!"
  5. Should the other crew member fail to respond to this point, then taking control had to be considered.
... there was of course a caveat that time constraints may require you to skip to any step. Certainly any time a formal title was used on the flight deck, it got your immediate attention that the other crew member was concerned enough to begin the formal steps towards a take over
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Old 24th Apr 2012, 10:03
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Sooo...maybe three ffurther steps = the raise 8 target.
Number 8 could be ...Please now feel free to immediately and appropriately use the crash Axe?
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Old 28th Apr 2012, 17:59
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“The simulator session also identified a period of about two minutes between about 2800ft and 1000ft in the descent where no control manipulations or systems activation was recorded," the report said.

“In contrast, during that period, a number of tasks should have normally been completed in preparation for landing.”

These actions include putting the landing great down (which was still not deployed at under 500ft), selecting the auto brake and changing the configuration of the flaps.

It is likely that the first officer’s performance was “adversely affected by fatigue", while the captain did not appropriately monitor his actions or the aircraft's configuration.


Read more: Texting captain sparks Jetstar flight drama | News.com.au
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Old 1st May 2012, 11:07
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Could somebody please explain what the "RAISE 8" method
In the report the 8 is in superscript and denotes the 8th explanatory note in the footer!
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Old 1st May 2012, 13:59
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The footnote 8 just says..

8 An acronym for the operator-approved method of bringing any divergence from the standard operating procedures to the attention of the relevant crew member.
If the method didn't work perhaps the method needs to be reviewed?
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Old 1st May 2012, 14:14
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Captain oughtta be fired?
Why, I think the new age FO should be fired for not lowering the undercarriage, where's all the assertiveness they learn in CRM class?

He saw the captain was preoccupied, why didn't he take control?
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Old 1st May 2012, 14:15
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There is nothing wrong with the RAISE method; the problem is the FO didn't go to the letter 'E' and instead deviated from it - by setting the Missed Approach Alt himself.

Don't call for the review of a method you know nothing about.
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Old 1st May 2012, 17:32
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Who cares about the stupid cell phone? Why did the gear not get put down? Obsessing over the missed approach altitude is worrying about the wrong item on the checklist. Got to have the rubber to meet the road, that's what is important.

More likely he was finishing up a level of Angry Birds.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 03:04
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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It is still not right that he (the FO) didn't noticed until that late in the approach that the gear wasn't down. In my opinion, every modern aircraft out there is built and designed in such a way that you can fly it single-pilot if the aircraft is in a "normal state".

Why didn't the FO complete the approach by himself and later telling the captain in friendly words that he felt it was not proper what he had just done?

Why the FO wasn't sufficiently in the loop to tell or know the gear wasn't down until 500ft?

How hard is it to ignore a phone? How hard is it to put it away from yourself if it continues to bother you?
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Old 2nd May 2012, 11:06
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Both pilots were Australian.

Captain got fired, FO kept his job.
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