Air France jet clips smaller plane at New York's JFK airport
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
grimmrad:
Never been to Paris, although I did see the E-file tower poking up above the stratus once on a flight from FCO to BOS.
As to NYC, more specifically Manhattan, as a crewmember I had probably 400 or more 24 or so hour layovers there. (A few 72 hour layovers with holiday cancellations.) Plus, when I was on my pilot union's MEC I would spend several days at a time there. My first brief visit was in 1951 when I was 14 years old. Then, before my airline days I spent a week there in 1961 and two weeks in 1962 on business.
I mostly enjoyed the place so long as someone else was paying my bills. But, I never did enjoy the horrible rides from JFK to midtown and back again.
So, I certainly had my fill. No way I would go back there using my money.
As to Paris, I couldn't begin to afford that place. My other views about Paris are generally not shared.
If I was loaded and had a French guide, then, yes, I would love to visit Paris.
Eh - have you been in Paris or NYC? Some people though say it (NYC) is the most exciting city in the world. One thing it certainly does, which is it has members of all peoples all over the world which alone makes it a fascinating place? Pretty it ain't - but fascinating it is.
As to NYC, more specifically Manhattan, as a crewmember I had probably 400 or more 24 or so hour layovers there. (A few 72 hour layovers with holiday cancellations.) Plus, when I was on my pilot union's MEC I would spend several days at a time there. My first brief visit was in 1951 when I was 14 years old. Then, before my airline days I spent a week there in 1961 and two weeks in 1962 on business.
I mostly enjoyed the place so long as someone else was paying my bills. But, I never did enjoy the horrible rides from JFK to midtown and back again.
So, I certainly had my fill. No way I would go back there using my money.
As to Paris, I couldn't begin to afford that place. My other views about Paris are generally not shared.
If I was loaded and had a French guide, then, yes, I would love to visit Paris.
Ref that list of the busiest airports Heathrow only has two runways, all the others above have many more. Therefore I think that measured by aircraft movements per runway Heathrow is easily the busiest in the world.
LD
LD
I think that measured by aircraft movements per runway Heathrow is easily the busiest in the world.
In terms of traffic flow, airports (ORD, MDW, JFK) with crossing runways are often only operating two or three at any one time, so the traffic flow and management problems may be just as "concentrated" as Heathrow's. Depends on a host of factors.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pattern is full:
I flew into ORD and JFK a whole lot. MDW only a few times in the late 1960s when I was flying the DC-9-10. ORD has been improved a lot since I retired, but the JFK runway layout remains the same and it is interwoven to LGA because of proximity. JFK can operate only two runways at a time; 13L/R; 31L/R, 4L/R, or 22L/R. The exception, wind permitting when 22s or 4s are being used, they can squeeze in an occasional heavy international departure on 13R or 31L.
In terms of traffic flow, airports (ORD, MDW, JFK) with crossing runways are often only operating two or three at any one time, so the traffic flow and management problems may be just as "concentrated" as Heathrow's. Depends on a host of factors.
Join Date: Jun 1997
Location: 5530N
Posts: 845
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember years ago an ogden catering truck whacked into the side of an EIN 330 in JFK and burst the stringers it was so bad.....aircraft in situ for a couple of weeks there as airbus sent their specialists over to repair it. I presume the same for the a380.
Re the RJ, the tail got such a smack/ lateral loading, I wouldnt be suprised if they binned it.
Re the RJ, the tail got such a smack/ lateral loading, I wouldnt be suprised if they binned it.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Europe
Age: 54
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So many assumptions...
Hello there,
flying the 744, and the hardest of it is the taxi in a busy airport, at night, with rain, with a controller that issues many instructions in somewhat a strange way.
JFK is one of the worst for that.
Just let the NTSB give the report, it will be better.
And don't forget, it can happen to everybody.
flying the 744, and the hardest of it is the taxi in a busy airport, at night, with rain, with a controller that issues many instructions in somewhat a strange way.
JFK is one of the worst for that.
Just let the NTSB give the report, it will be better.
And don't forget, it can happen to everybody.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLF, living somewhere East in the West
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah, Paris, oh la la
aterpster: couldn't agree more, I hate the rides (and the prices) in NYC AND in Paris. Leaving NYC at evening rush hour is a nightmare on the street and in JFK (EWR is a bit better, LGA not much).
And there are some experiences on a trip to Paris as a student I do certainly not share (very nice ones though). Envying you for that view onto the city though.
And there are some experiences on a trip to Paris as a student I do certainly not share (very nice ones though). Envying you for that view onto the city though.
The 380 was still parked around the back on the 18th but I couldn't see it anywhere when I left two days later. I've flown to my share of third-world airports and JFK is one of them. Even though it's a mess I've always liked the style of ATC. They do a good job with what they've got and have a sense of humour.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pretty far away
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, NYC, although at times quite hectic, is a very interesting and challenging airport and at least New Yorkers are for real and like those sun tanned, face lifted, hormon pumped and self concerned californians.
Like they say in Australia, there's nothing cool about a tan !
If the ATC boys chew your head off, then bloody do the same and everything gets back to normal. This is NYC for God's sake !
You still have to give the boys a bow for what they do in this mad house, specially in the kinds of foul weathers NYC gets in winter and summer.
As to the 380 speed, it was exactly 9 kt. The film's speed was accelarated at double the speed by the network who put it online.
As to whose fault ? Let the NTSB do their job.
Like they say in Australia, there's nothing cool about a tan !
If the ATC boys chew your head off, then bloody do the same and everything gets back to normal. This is NYC for God's sake !
You still have to give the boys a bow for what they do in this mad house, specially in the kinds of foul weathers NYC gets in winter and summer.
As to the 380 speed, it was exactly 9 kt. The film's speed was accelarated at double the speed by the network who put it online.
As to whose fault ? Let the NTSB do their job.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLF, living somewhere East in the West
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't forget that his is one - if not the - busiest airspace in the world (I assume). Sitting in central park you can watch the traffic over your head... Can't be easy for ATC.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See here for the world's busiest airports top 30.
According to the Airports Council International:
The council listed London as the city with the busiest airspace,
According to the Airports Council International:
The council listed London as the city with the busiest airspace,
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SLF, living somewhere East in the West
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airport it maybe less busy but how about airspace above it? There is EWR and LGA in it vicinity - and its amazing especially at night how many wide bodies you see curving over our heads...
I wonder to what extent the experience level of the participants contributes to the overall perception of "busyness" as well. I've felt a lot more stressed flying into TEB or MDW when there were a (relatively small) bunch of guys, many of whom were likely fairly newly minted, stepping on each other to announce their presence to approach than I have in other situations with substantially more participants who were content to dial the frequency, hit the ident after it was clear that there was unlikely to be a break in the action, and wait for the controller to get the job done in his own good time.
Plumbum Pendular
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Avionics Bay
Age: 55
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have only flown into the USA in a widebody a few times.
It would seem to me that this RAMP Control is a source of problems and lack of coordination at US airfields leading to such accidents.
If both were on the same freq then there would have been a chance that the RJ would have told ground that he was not on stand and ground could have stopped the AF.
It would appear that there are many human factors issues here. The holes in the cheese lined up..........
Once an Aircraft enters the ramp (Termial 2 in this case) the aircraft will switch to RAMP Control (131.375), They are No longer talking to ground control. The aircraft is in the Judistriction of Ramp control, not JFK Ground Control.
If both were on the same freq then there would have been a chance that the RJ would have told ground that he was not on stand and ground could have stopped the AF.
It would appear that there are many human factors issues here. The holes in the cheese lined up..........
Join Date: May 2009
Location: sfo
Age: 70
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ramp control
In SFO at least, ramp control on the A side of the International Terminal is contracted out to service companies. I believe UA handles it on the opposite side, as they are the main tenant there. They are not ATC qualified or supervised folks from the conversations I have had with a buddy in ATC.