Falsified CV's
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Falsified CV's
NOS Nieuws - Chinese piloten vervalsen hun cv
Over 200 pilots were found to have falsified their CV's, Chinese authorities found following checks as a result of the recent Henan crash.....
Over 200 pilots were found to have falsified their CV's, Chinese authorities found following checks as a result of the recent Henan crash.....
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www.kunpeng-air.com/
What about Europe and the States...
Hours >>> "Experience" >>> Job >>> $$$... but once in the deck it s another story
www.kunpeng-air.com/
Hours >>> "Experience" >>> Job >>> $$$... but once in the deck it s another story
www.kunpeng-air.com/
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I'm assuming some of the forgeries found relate to logged hours...
I've never understood why hours play such a large part in employment prospects for commercial pilots. Everyone should be trained to the same level regardless of time. For example an MECIR rating should hold the same weight industry wide.
PIC time is not a good indicator of skill. Military pilots are a good example of this. A Career fast jet pilot may only log 3-5000 hours but given the choice I would always pick him over a commercial pilot with +20,000.
Some pilots can go a whole career and not be subjected to a serious aircraft system failure.
A low timer could be faced with a flameout on his very first journey in a heavy......
I've never understood why hours play such a large part in employment prospects for commercial pilots. Everyone should be trained to the same level regardless of time. For example an MECIR rating should hold the same weight industry wide.
PIC time is not a good indicator of skill. Military pilots are a good example of this. A Career fast jet pilot may only log 3-5000 hours but given the choice I would always pick him over a commercial pilot with +20,000.
Some pilots can go a whole career and not be subjected to a serious aircraft system failure.
A low timer could be faced with a flameout on his very first journey in a heavy......
So Mr C....
When your fast jet pilot with 3-5ooohrs eventually becomes an older commercial pilot with 20000 hrs you will have lost confidence in him ??
Emeritus
When your fast jet pilot with 3-5ooohrs eventually becomes an older commercial pilot with 20000 hrs you will have lost confidence in him ??
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German news magazine 'Der Spiegel' is reporting about this in their online service:
Flugsicherheit: Chinesische Piloten fälschten Flugstunden-Nachweise - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Wirtschaft
It says that a closer examination of their pilot's CVs has revealed that over 100 pilots of Shenzhen Airlines have forged their flying records and that pilots of other airlines are affected, too.
If you cooperate with Chinese companies, you risk that your products are being copied. If you work for them, you might not get paid. Why am I not surprised?
Flugsicherheit: Chinesische Piloten fälschten Flugstunden-Nachweise - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Wirtschaft
It says that a closer examination of their pilot's CVs has revealed that over 100 pilots of Shenzhen Airlines have forged their flying records and that pilots of other airlines are affected, too.
If you cooperate with Chinese companies, you risk that your products are being copied. If you work for them, you might not get paid. Why am I not surprised?
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There is no time in normal civvy flying that requires you to be in any way special. The computer does it better. The only time humans are better than computers is for the completely unexpected. That is why you are there.
Sorry, but I felt a little special after accomplishing all that safely.....
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This thread, like some others, is descending into a willy waving contest between civil and military pilots and is totally childish. Let's all grow up and go back to the serious matter of pilots appearing to get jobs by, one way or another, falsifying their experience.
If bad eggs are being employed because of this alleged falsification three things come to mind:
One; potential employers are not carefully checking the personal documentation and references of the applicant,or...
Two; they don't care - and that can't be true can it? As there seem to be a glut of qualified plots right now why would they act this way?
Three: the bad eggs are good at forgery - but references should throw that out - see point one.
1106
If bad eggs are being employed because of this alleged falsification three things come to mind:
One; potential employers are not carefully checking the personal documentation and references of the applicant,or...
Two; they don't care - and that can't be true can it? As there seem to be a glut of qualified plots right now why would they act this way?
Three: the bad eggs are good at forgery - but references should throw that out - see point one.
1106
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Gentlemen,
This thread is pointless. Wise pilots know that to generalise about previous experience is a waste of time. As a TRE I have failed ex-fast jet pilots now flying airliners and I have seen excellent performances by other ex-fast jet pilots. I have failed ex-Loganair pilots and I have seen excellent performances by other ex Loganair pilots...and so on.
The only people to make generalisations are the wannabees and never weres whose idea of operating a multi crew aircraft is playing at flight sim whatever with their nephew.
They are clueless, nothing more to say.
This thread is pointless. Wise pilots know that to generalise about previous experience is a waste of time. As a TRE I have failed ex-fast jet pilots now flying airliners and I have seen excellent performances by other ex-fast jet pilots. I have failed ex-Loganair pilots and I have seen excellent performances by other ex Loganair pilots...and so on.
The only people to make generalisations are the wannabees and never weres whose idea of operating a multi crew aircraft is playing at flight sim whatever with their nephew.
They are clueless, nothing more to say.
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My last airline had a pretty good recruitment system in which someone with some knowledge or experience in parallel with the applicant was "co-opted" onto the selection process (interview, simulator or "lunch-time tea and sandwiches").
I was able to spot a couple of imposters..........one because he kept referring to his time on "one-two-oh squadron...........(always known as one-twenty) and the other because the aircraft on which he claimed 1000 hours hadn't been introduced in that period. Closer examination of their CVs showed an imaginative but fictional background.
Nowadays the recruitment process tends to be conducted by an army of HR people with personality, compatibility and PC tests without the "gut-feeling" that warns a professional airman that something is amiss with this particular chap ?
I was able to spot a couple of imposters..........one because he kept referring to his time on "one-two-oh squadron...........(always known as one-twenty) and the other because the aircraft on which he claimed 1000 hours hadn't been introduced in that period. Closer examination of their CVs showed an imaginative but fictional background.
Nowadays the recruitment process tends to be conducted by an army of HR people with personality, compatibility and PC tests without the "gut-feeling" that warns a professional airman that something is amiss with this particular chap ?
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Falsified CV's
I have to laugh...we would call this "parker time" or "p51 time" here in the United States.
I've heard another sort of test question...what's the dead dog switch?
)(( I personally don't like this question...or its related: what's the pupcicle switch).
Someone asked me this and I started laughing at them. I showed him my certificate (we even say: ticket here or license) and walked away.
I've heard another sort of test question...what's the dead dog switch?
)(( I personally don't like this question...or its related: what's the pupcicle switch).
Someone asked me this and I started laughing at them. I showed him my certificate (we even say: ticket here or license) and walked away.
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Any 'pilot' who falsifies his credentials shows a disgraceful lack of integrity and should have his licence pulled - permanently.
Especially one who claims to have flown for the "North of Scotland Egg Marketing Board." Old One-Twenty hands (like me) will know the phrase well.
Especially one who claims to have flown for the "North of Scotland Egg Marketing Board." Old One-Twenty hands (like me) will know the phrase well.
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I'm just curious as to what the mean by 'falsifying' exactly. Do they mean that some one applied for the job saying that they had 1000hrs on jets, when infact they only had 900hrs? Which, naughty it may be, but barring insurance minimums, I suspect won't keep you out of heaven.
My concern is that if some guy rocks up telling everyone he has 1000 PIC on the A330, when infact, the last aircraft he commanded was a C172, then why ell' was this not picked up on during the selection process, specificly, the sim eval?
My concern is that if some guy rocks up telling everyone he has 1000 PIC on the A330, when infact, the last aircraft he commanded was a C172, then why ell' was this not picked up on during the selection process, specificly, the sim eval?
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He was a near death experience waiting for a place to happen and I was glad to see the back of him.
The absolute LAST thing one would want to do is hire a pilot with a military fast jet background, of any kind.
The Brit 'Pablo' comes to mind as a prime example...and malcontent, personified.
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On first entering the professional pilot world, I too couldn't understand why airlines were so hung up on hours. Now that I have them, I see why. The more experience/time in the flight deck the better I perform, whether it's day-to-day to achieve a safer flight and save fuel or in the sim using the experience not to make the same mistakes.
As for military vs. civvy argument, I understand the two worlds are very different and require different skills. In the other words I would not want a fast jet pilot to command on a civilian flight without experience and vice versa for the civvy pilot in the fast jet. You just can't compare that way.
As for military vs. civvy argument, I understand the two worlds are very different and require different skills. In the other words I would not want a fast jet pilot to command on a civilian flight without experience and vice versa for the civvy pilot in the fast jet. You just can't compare that way.
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It happens.
I've met a lot of pilots who didn't have the experience they claimed. I had an assistant chief pilot who claimed all kinds of experience...until I happened to walk into a flight school one day to buy some supplies, and saw a wall of pictures of student graduates. I was surprised to find his picture on the wall, listing him as a new Private pilot, only a year before.
Ironically, I had an opportunity to sit in a group interview for an operator, with him. We were both applicants for the job. The person conducting the interview asked this imposter about some of his experience, and he glanced at his feet and mumbled "I don't really like to talk about it." He was dismissed from the interview several minutes later.
At a small Part 135 operation, I was acting as a check airman, and was asked to prepare a new hire applicant for his FAA checkride, one evening. It became quickly apparent that he didn't know his material, long before we ever got to the airplane, a small Cessna 210. The flight only confirmed it. A review of his background turned up several companies that had never heard of him though he claimed experience there, including an airline. He had excuse after excuse, and eventually abandoned his effort and went somewhere else...under false pretenses.
I even met an examiner who ran a flight school that churned out ATP's (who is still in business), who advised his new graduates to falsify their logbooks. He said that if the students had a conscience issue, they could later forgo logging some time. That, of course, didn't obviate the fact that they'd falsified their time and entered the cockpit unqualified and under false pretenses, or make anything right.
I suspect that the number of falsify their experience and time, and their resumes, are not few.
I've met a lot of pilots who didn't have the experience they claimed. I had an assistant chief pilot who claimed all kinds of experience...until I happened to walk into a flight school one day to buy some supplies, and saw a wall of pictures of student graduates. I was surprised to find his picture on the wall, listing him as a new Private pilot, only a year before.
Ironically, I had an opportunity to sit in a group interview for an operator, with him. We were both applicants for the job. The person conducting the interview asked this imposter about some of his experience, and he glanced at his feet and mumbled "I don't really like to talk about it." He was dismissed from the interview several minutes later.
At a small Part 135 operation, I was acting as a check airman, and was asked to prepare a new hire applicant for his FAA checkride, one evening. It became quickly apparent that he didn't know his material, long before we ever got to the airplane, a small Cessna 210. The flight only confirmed it. A review of his background turned up several companies that had never heard of him though he claimed experience there, including an airline. He had excuse after excuse, and eventually abandoned his effort and went somewhere else...under false pretenses.
I even met an examiner who ran a flight school that churned out ATP's (who is still in business), who advised his new graduates to falsify their logbooks. He said that if the students had a conscience issue, they could later forgo logging some time. That, of course, didn't obviate the fact that they'd falsified their time and entered the cockpit unqualified and under false pretenses, or make anything right.
I suspect that the number of falsify their experience and time, and their resumes, are not few.
I'm not a pilot or related to the industry other than as a passenger (who flew Shenzhen Airlines last week...).
I don't know what the falsifying was but - the Chinese authorities have caught the people concerned and they are we are told undergoing testing and retraining. And it has been reported - so - it ain't all a 'typical Chinese' type thing is it?
Unfortunately not just in China - but if you think of all the emails offering qualifications for money - there is a culture of falsifying qualifications whilst wrong people often feel the need to falsify because bumping up the amount of qualifications needed to get even to the interview stage is used as a way to cut down on the number of applications received.
This problem, it seems to me - has two sides to it.
I don't know what the falsifying was but - the Chinese authorities have caught the people concerned and they are we are told undergoing testing and retraining. And it has been reported - so - it ain't all a 'typical Chinese' type thing is it?
Unfortunately not just in China - but if you think of all the emails offering qualifications for money - there is a culture of falsifying qualifications whilst wrong people often feel the need to falsify because bumping up the amount of qualifications needed to get even to the interview stage is used as a way to cut down on the number of applications received.
This problem, it seems to me - has two sides to it.
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JD had it right.
He was the DirOps for a quite large corporate flight department, with several Gulfstreams and, later on, a B727.
Anyway, I receive a call at noon time in Florida.
Can you come to Burbank, he says, I'll send the company helicopter to get you at LAX.
Your ticket will arrive tommorow by FedEx.
I travel to LAX, and ride in the company helicopter to BUR.
JD says, welcome, we need an overseas chief pilot and you have been chosen for the position.
He then says...the company Gulfstream is out back behind the hangar, lets fly to Fresno for lunch.
I climb into the LHS, JD in the right, and he says...fly it like a 707, and I'll take care of the rest.
We depart to Fresno and complete a few ILS approaches, two with an engine inop, then land.
JD, I and a few forest service DC7 pilots that he knew, all have lunch together..
JD mentions...'I always want to see if the new guys can fly properly, that way you can spot a fake inside of thirty minutes.'
JD was correct.
Three others had the Gulfstream treatment before I was hired.
Eventually, a fake is found out, but usually not before he has done a disservice to others.
He was the DirOps for a quite large corporate flight department, with several Gulfstreams and, later on, a B727.
Anyway, I receive a call at noon time in Florida.
Can you come to Burbank, he says, I'll send the company helicopter to get you at LAX.
Your ticket will arrive tommorow by FedEx.
I travel to LAX, and ride in the company helicopter to BUR.
JD says, welcome, we need an overseas chief pilot and you have been chosen for the position.
He then says...the company Gulfstream is out back behind the hangar, lets fly to Fresno for lunch.
I climb into the LHS, JD in the right, and he says...fly it like a 707, and I'll take care of the rest.
We depart to Fresno and complete a few ILS approaches, two with an engine inop, then land.
JD, I and a few forest service DC7 pilots that he knew, all have lunch together..
JD mentions...'I always want to see if the new guys can fly properly, that way you can spot a fake inside of thirty minutes.'
JD was correct.
Three others had the Gulfstream treatment before I was hired.
Eventually, a fake is found out, but usually not before he has done a disservice to others.