UPS Aircraft Down In Dubai
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Soooo, the major investigative arm of a government that has been shown to be a paragon of truth (see build-up to Iraq invasion, and Wikileaks), says, with NO substantiation, that 'the UPS crash was not related to al-qaida'. Take that for what it's worth. Sam
Trash du Blanc
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They have data that show where the fire started. And they know where all the boxes in that area come from. So I guess it would be possible to rule it out.
But then these two incidents have to be the biggest coincidence I have ever seen in my life.
But then these two incidents have to be the biggest coincidence I have ever seen in my life.
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"Mr Bond, they have a saying in Chicago:
'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action'."
— Ian Fleming (Goldfinger)
'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action'."
— Ian Fleming (Goldfinger)
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FAA are just bolting the stable door
Nice of CAA to confirm my earlier postion that US DG regulations are lax and below the international standard:
www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD201030.pdf
Perhaps the FAA have managed what evil doers have failed to do.
www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD201030.pdf
Perhaps the FAA have managed what evil doers have failed to do.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Apologies if this has already been covered:
I was having dinner the other evening with a UPS pilot the other night in Chicago and we were discussing this accident. His romour control office is mentioning an pallet of lithium batteries that were damaged by the tines on a forklift while being loaded on ac pallet.
If this proves to be the - or one of the causal factors - one would be interested in taking it down to root causes.
I was having dinner the other evening with a UPS pilot the other night in Chicago and we were discussing this accident. His romour control office is mentioning an pallet of lithium batteries that were damaged by the tines on a forklift while being loaded on ac pallet.
If this proves to be the - or one of the causal factors - one would be interested in taking it down to root causes.
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Hopefully carelessness like this didn't cause the accident. I remember the DC8 out of MIA a while back that nobody put the cargo bear claws up and when all the cargo shifted back after takeoff it stalled and crashed killing everyone on board. Smashing a forklift into a cargo of lithium batteries and loading them on an airplane is like arming a bomb.
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This update is intended to cover all investigative work or activities that has been completed by the investigation group – this update doesn’t speculate on the cause of the accident:
Crewmember questions:
How long will the investigation take place? As previously discussed, this is an Annex 13 Investigation being conducted by the GCAA. Presently, there isn’t an anticipated final report date – the IPA will continue to be involved in this on-going process throughout all phase of the investigation.
Will the CVR transcripts be released? The GCAA has indicated the CVR transcript will not be released. The transcript – or paraphrased versions – will only be used by the various investigative groups.
Will a final report be written by the GCAA? The IPA anticipates a final report written by the GCAA with a comment period provided for the accredited representatives (including the IPA) at the end of the investigation.
- December 1-3, 2010: GCAA/NTSB Face-to-Face Coordinators Meeting.
- Meeting included presentations from all Working Groups
- Opportunity to have a productive exchange of information between all parties.
- November 29, 2010: Tour of FAA Fire Labs facilities in Atlantic City, NJ.
- Witnessed Lithium Ion explosive test
- Round table discussion regarding new threats of carrying lithium batteries
- Toured the FAA Fire Lab focusing on facilities test capabilities.
- Viewed retrofitted ULD container to test various types of suppression.
- November 16 and 19, 2010: UPS Boeing 747-400F Flight Test completed in SDF.
- Nov 16th flight test was conducted to sample audio spectrum analysis of the oxygen system and accessibility of emergency equipment from a seated position.
- Nov 19th flight test observed functionality and performance of the Main Deck Cargo Fire System. (Provide DFDR data set for comparison)
- November 3, 2010: Timeline Group formed.
- Master Timeline Group to collect all pertinent data/information related to the accident flight including DFDR, CVR, AHM, ATC, Fire and Cargo. This provides a composite view of information to assist all other working groups.
- Deliverables to other Working Groups include:
- “Master Timeline” using advanced NTSB tools to correlated data into one cohesive set.
- Master timeline of events displayed graphically in using several different analysis tools. To include animation similar to the NASA Space Shuttle Columbia accident – this is the first civil accident to employ this technique--
- October-November 2010: Operations Group Activities
- Completed a series of interview relevant to the investigation.
- Conducted Simulator observations in ANC.
- October-November 2010:
- FDR Group completed FDR Plots and Report.
- CVR Group completed CVR Transcript
- October-November 2010: Accident site cleared – wreckage stored in DXB – secured by the GCAA.
- On-going Progress Meetings
- IPA Party Coordinator participates in frequent teleconferences with GCAA/NTSB.
- As needed, IPA Party Coordinator and Working Group members attend additional meetings with industry reps.
- Working Group members
- IPA members participate in scheduled conference calls (often weekly) and group meetings as required.
- IPA Party Coordinator participates in frequent teleconferences with GCAA/NTSB.
Crewmember questions:
How long will the investigation take place? As previously discussed, this is an Annex 13 Investigation being conducted by the GCAA. Presently, there isn’t an anticipated final report date – the IPA will continue to be involved in this on-going process throughout all phase of the investigation.
Will the CVR transcripts be released? The GCAA has indicated the CVR transcript will not be released. The transcript – or paraphrased versions – will only be used by the various investigative groups.
Will a final report be written by the GCAA? The IPA anticipates a final report written by the GCAA with a comment period provided for the accredited representatives (including the IPA) at the end of the investigation.
Trash du Blanc
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Fifty-three days between this:
UPS Flight 6
and this:
Fedex Printer Bomb
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but what are the odds?
And Al-Qaeda claims they did both......
UPS Flight 6
and this:
Fedex Printer Bomb
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but what are the odds?
And Al-Qaeda claims they did both......
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If the UPS was terrorism, I wouldn't consider it a particularly effective form of terrorism. Where the terrorist gambling on the a/c coming down in a residential area? It could easily (and more likely) have gone down over the desert or the sea.
A Runyonesque Character
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For reasons I don’t quite understand, I found myself not long after the accident reading a well-produced, glossy brochure published by Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP).
While it contained a certain amount of other anti-Western propaganda, most of it was devoted to claims that they had brought down the aircraft. Not triumphalist crowing, though, it was a rather pathetic cry of ‘why doesn’t anybody believe us?’
It was clearly an accident, that was well enough known at the time and is even more evident now. But AQAP were desperate to be held responsible, it was almost pitiful reading their pleas.
I have my own theories about why this desperation.
While it contained a certain amount of other anti-Western propaganda, most of it was devoted to claims that they had brought down the aircraft. Not triumphalist crowing, though, it was a rather pathetic cry of ‘why doesn’t anybody believe us?’
It was clearly an accident, that was well enough known at the time and is even more evident now. But AQAP were desperate to be held responsible, it was almost pitiful reading their pleas.
I have my own theories about why this desperation.
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I do business in Shenzhen China and know quite a lot about trade in mobile phone battery's.
Certain buyers insist on the lowest price around $1.5 US and some company's are willing to supply anything you ask for. Battery's come with certain built in safety devices in the form of 2 integrated circuits. These are supplied as 1 IC or 2 IC one regulates the charge the other detects short circuits and overheating the cost is very low just a few cents. Problem is they take up room in the tiny battery so if you leave them out you can put more chemical in giving the battery a longer life or use chemical of lower quality and cost. Any damage or leakage exits from the weakest point in the battery the end at the convectors. This is a real problem the fluid being a conductor the battery then shorts out and you hope pray its a 2 IC model. Having the pallets sit on the ground in Dubai 40 degrees and then exposed to lower pressure is a disaster waiting to happen.There is no way to determine the quality of a battery without actually destroying it, unless you have your own QC people in the factory, assuming they are not bribed. Labels and boxes mean nothing in China which ever brand would you like is possible.
Its really bad news Phone battery's do not belong in aircraft unless you are 100% sure of the supply chain and fire systems on the aircraft are in place.
The risk of fire is so great I will not deal in battery's.
Last week an electric car in Shenzhen was hit in an accident and burst into flames killing all 3 in the car. There is no petrol in an electric car, the cause of the fire is currently being investigated.
Certain buyers insist on the lowest price around $1.5 US and some company's are willing to supply anything you ask for. Battery's come with certain built in safety devices in the form of 2 integrated circuits. These are supplied as 1 IC or 2 IC one regulates the charge the other detects short circuits and overheating the cost is very low just a few cents. Problem is they take up room in the tiny battery so if you leave them out you can put more chemical in giving the battery a longer life or use chemical of lower quality and cost. Any damage or leakage exits from the weakest point in the battery the end at the convectors. This is a real problem the fluid being a conductor the battery then shorts out and you hope pray its a 2 IC model. Having the pallets sit on the ground in Dubai 40 degrees and then exposed to lower pressure is a disaster waiting to happen.There is no way to determine the quality of a battery without actually destroying it, unless you have your own QC people in the factory, assuming they are not bribed. Labels and boxes mean nothing in China which ever brand would you like is possible.
Its really bad news Phone battery's do not belong in aircraft unless you are 100% sure of the supply chain and fire systems on the aircraft are in place.
The risk of fire is so great I will not deal in battery's.
Last week an electric car in Shenzhen was hit in an accident and burst into flames killing all 3 in the car. There is no petrol in an electric car, the cause of the fire is currently being investigated.
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AQAP is a good excuse to avoid looking at the poor application of ICAO principles by US airlines.
As said in another threadby an American:
As said in another threadby an American:
ICAO requirements and procedures may as well not exist. That's foreign stuff, and anyone who even suggests that there might be anything worthwhile in any of them would be laughed out of the room.
