French ATC
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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French ATC
On a similar vein to the Spanish ATC problems of late, all I have had when asking for short-cuts that are usually given on initial check-in is "standard routing". With that and their lack of any flexibility on flight levels, plus their tendency to go out on strike France24 - Air traffic controller strike to disrupt flights from French airports it's all making for a costly and heavily disrupted summer so far.
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From what I can understand, today's strike serves a different purpose from that of the current work on rule strike.
The reason they're carrying this work on rule action at the moment (a strike with no name as there is nothing official - how bold of them !!! They still get paid for buzzing those very people feeding them) is that they now have to sign in.
YES how can you expect from anyone to sign in at work ! This is slavery at work. And the reason signing in is such a disgrace to their eyes is that they used to surf on a system whereby people were simply called off from work during less dense trafic periods. Which means these people used to stay home but were still counted as active, working staff : getting paid for not working. How about that !!! This is called the "clearance" system, i.e. forget about coming to work today, you're cleared to dabble in all sorts of leisure activities, doing
Now, the fact they have to sign in with their own ID card and not just waiving at the team as before means they have to take this "work method" out of their life style.
Their argument is "if you want to abide by the rules (i.e. signing in) so will we. All standard, no fuss, no search for improved flight tracks or flight levels. Nothing. All by the charts, obviously forgetting that speeding traffic flows is a hard part of their duty.
Now you know why your airline is wasting so much money in France for these drama queens.
The reason they're carrying this work on rule action at the moment (a strike with no name as there is nothing official - how bold of them !!! They still get paid for buzzing those very people feeding them) is that they now have to sign in.
YES how can you expect from anyone to sign in at work ! This is slavery at work. And the reason signing in is such a disgrace to their eyes is that they used to surf on a system whereby people were simply called off from work during less dense trafic periods. Which means these people used to stay home but were still counted as active, working staff : getting paid for not working. How about that !!! This is called the "clearance" system, i.e. forget about coming to work today, you're cleared to dabble in all sorts of leisure activities, doing
Now, the fact they have to sign in with their own ID card and not just waiving at the team as before means they have to take this "work method" out of their life style.
Their argument is "if you want to abide by the rules (i.e. signing in) so will we. All standard, no fuss, no search for improved flight tracks or flight levels. Nothing. All by the charts, obviously forgetting that speeding traffic flows is a hard part of their duty.
Now you know why your airline is wasting so much money in France for these drama queens.
Now that is about the most constructive solution I have read so far but I do wonder how many of you out there would actually have the balls to do that.
More years ago than I care to remember, that was the only way that the Red Arrows (when they flew Gnats) could go anywhere in Europe due to their lack of range and inability to deal with the vagaries of French ATC etc.
Their answer was to climb to F310 or thereabouts and then go "speechless" until it was time to come down again.
Worked like a charm.
More years ago than I care to remember, that was the only way that the Red Arrows (when they flew Gnats) could go anywhere in Europe due to their lack of range and inability to deal with the vagaries of French ATC etc.
Their answer was to climb to F310 or thereabouts and then go "speechless" until it was time to come down again.
Worked like a charm.
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Then of course there's the language barrier...i.e.-where are the AF A/C and what are they doing??? Hope you speak "Francais"...
Even the African Controllers (pick a Country, it doesn't matter) have a better command of "Aviation English" than the French...
Even the African Controllers (pick a Country, it doesn't matter) have a better command of "Aviation English" than the French...
I understand todays 24hr strike was in protest of the French Governments proposal to raise the state retirement age from 60 to 62.
Strange how this wasn't reported on the UK TV News today.
Strange how this wasn't reported on the UK TV News today.
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Then of course there's the language barrier...i.e.-where are the AF A/C and what are they doing??? Hope you speak "Francais"...
Even the African Controllers (pick a Country, it doesn't matter) have a better command of "Aviation English" than the French...
Even the African Controllers (pick a Country, it doesn't matter) have a better command of "Aviation English" than the French...
Whilst it is not unusual for Americans to have to have some particular difficulties with instructions, I had always just put it down to accents, or the fact the patter wasn't being delivered at the speed of a tobbaco auctioneer!
I have always found French ATC to be professional and precise, when they are working.
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Maybe they've just read this?
EUROCONTROL - Flight Plan & ATFCM adherence
EUROCONTROL - Flight Plan & ATFCM adherence
Eurocontrol really have got this all wrong. If they experience "overdelivery" it's because they've understaffed the sectors concerned for economic reasons. Planning on their part should include the expectation that real world efficient flow of airtraffic includes DCT routes and different FL's flown for fuel economy, therefore traffic will sometimes arrive early.
Who's providing a Service here? Not Eurocontrol or it's Commitees, that's for sure.
Who's providing a Service here? Not Eurocontrol or it's Commitees, that's for sure.
So in the current economic climate with European air traffic 13% below it's 2007 levels Europe's controllers suddenly can't handle it any more. Yes aircraft change speed, level, heading and departure times for any number of reasons, this is not a utopian world and forcing aircraft to burn thousands of tons of extra fuel to save understaffed atc units a few pennies is a sad reflection on (mis)management culture. The cry of flight safety is hackneyed and wearing a bit thin. Provide the service for which the airlines pay hundreds of millions in Eurocontrol charges.
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How did this get away from the original thread?
Los Endos,
They aren't Eurocontrol charges. Eurocontrol only collects the charges on behalf of the ANSPs/states so each airline doesn't get a seperate bill for each country they fly over for every flight !
. The states set the charges and spend the income - nothing to do with Eurocontrol.
Nightstop
Why have they got it wrong? In today's economic climate service providers also have to cut costs and they provide the staff when and where they are needed, calculated by the only means available to them - flow and demand predictions. If a sector reaches capacity there is not a lot anyone can do except put on restrictions. If an airline files below/around that sector to avoid that restriction they know they have extra fuel burn and costs but are prepared to fly to keep on schedule - then it is a calculated business decision. However if the airline requests the higher level/direct on frequency and it is given this can quickly overload the restricted sector and could be extremely dangerous.
I see it every day with a certain Irish airline that files FL320 and always requests FL380 when on frequency - this causes extra workload (and throws all the predictions out) as we have to check with flow to see if there are any restrictions further down the route - maybe we should start charging them for every change to their plan (booking)
ANSP's don't provide extra staff when not required ( just in case there are some level changes or direct routes ) just like airlines wouldn't provide extra cabin crew just in case there is a high demand for drinks !!
The future is flight plan adherence - get used to it!
Also to those that are complaining about not getting direct - think about it. You are getting exactly what you have paid for and requested (flightplan route) - just because you usually get a bonus (direct) doesn't mean you are entitled to it - so stop throwing the toys out of the pram
Millerman
Los Endos,
They aren't Eurocontrol charges. Eurocontrol only collects the charges on behalf of the ANSPs/states so each airline doesn't get a seperate bill for each country they fly over for every flight !
. The states set the charges and spend the income - nothing to do with Eurocontrol.Nightstop
Why have they got it wrong? In today's economic climate service providers also have to cut costs and they provide the staff when and where they are needed, calculated by the only means available to them - flow and demand predictions. If a sector reaches capacity there is not a lot anyone can do except put on restrictions. If an airline files below/around that sector to avoid that restriction they know they have extra fuel burn and costs but are prepared to fly to keep on schedule - then it is a calculated business decision. However if the airline requests the higher level/direct on frequency and it is given this can quickly overload the restricted sector and could be extremely dangerous.
I see it every day with a certain Irish airline that files FL320 and always requests FL380 when on frequency - this causes extra workload (and throws all the predictions out) as we have to check with flow to see if there are any restrictions further down the route - maybe we should start charging them for every change to their plan (booking)
ANSP's don't provide extra staff when not required ( just in case there are some level changes or direct routes ) just like airlines wouldn't provide extra cabin crew just in case there is a high demand for drinks !!
The future is flight plan adherence - get used to it!
Also to those that are complaining about not getting direct - think about it. You are getting exactly what you have paid for and requested (flightplan route) - just because you usually get a bonus (direct) doesn't mean you are entitled to it - so stop throwing the toys out of the pram
Millerman