French ATC
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Now this is getting ridiculous ! When are we going to switch to English for good here in France ? I feel embarrassed and sorry for my foreign colleagues everytime ATC keeps switching languages back and forth.
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Feel free to start with your first message in English, even you fly a french compagny. I'm sure that most of my colleagues will answer you in English. I used to do that.
Join Date: May 2007
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@Andrijander
Just wondering where you got that information from? As far as I know, you can get 6 even if English is not your mother tongue 
I am also Spanish and I have level 6.
Well I'm spanish and I've got level 5 (can't get 6, since english is not my mother tongue).
I am also Spanish and I have level 6.
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Corrigendum
I thought it was clarified in a previous post, but it seems it wasn't (truth be told it is dubious). You do not need to be native to get level 6 (as I thought originally) but the problem I have were I am is the system we use (it is not designed to prove up to level 6 but 5 only). I understand it has to do with how the test is designed and performed i.e. length, techniques/technologies used, etc.
I guess the confusion came as I was told back then, when I did the test, that it was a pity they couldn't give me a 6 (I guess if we could grant it here I may have got it, but that's blowing my own whistle and definitely not a fact).
So, apologies for the misunderstanding, but you can be 6 if your testing system is allowed to grant a level 6. Wether you're a native or not.
A.
I guess the confusion came as I was told back then, when I did the test, that it was a pity they couldn't give me a 6 (I guess if we could grant it here I may have got it, but that's blowing my own whistle and definitely not a fact).
So, apologies for the misunderstanding, but you can be 6 if your testing system is allowed to grant a level 6. Wether you're a native or not.
A.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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You seem to imply that we went back to french because pilots were not good enough in english.
Allow me to correct you: We reverted back to french because of the uproar the CDG ATC made at this new "procedure"...
Allow me to correct you: We reverted back to french because of the uproar the CDG ATC made at this new "procedure"...
I didn't imply anything. I really don't know why they came back to French. CDG ATCos seem to say it's because of AFR pilots, pilots say it's ATCo's fault...
I've never worked in CDG and I don't exactly remember the reports.
There could be really good reasons.
Working in an ACC, I wouldn't mind speaking English with every pilot, let's say over FL 290 or so.
I'm more or less able to argue on the freq in English, despite my "poor" official level 4 (I could be level 10, my official score would still be 4 in France, in order to validate it every other 3 years, as ICOA recommands), but as long as I can choose, I'll argue in French.
So, the one who turns is the French speaking pilot.(joke !)
If French pilots had to speak English, I'd rather put my trust in English pilots, so the English speaking pilot would be the one who turns.(joke again!)
I don't kwow what's the best. And I don't think a pilot can understand AND anticipate a global situation on a sector, whatever the language.
e.g.: Last week, I had to deal with an emergency descent. I had to take all the traffics in my sector on radar vectors, the one who turned most was a French speaking pilot (not a choice, matter of facts). Nobody knew why they were vectored until I asked the descending pilot which kind of assistance he needed on arrival. 40000 feet in less than 80 miles was a steep descent. No time to explain. I had this traffic less than 1 min on my freq.
Afterwards, I felt lucky that all the pilots had trusted me, whatever the language.
Last edited by BrATCO; 14th Jul 2010 at 13:12.
BrATCO:
Congratulations; you did a great job and that is what we all hope would happen when the merde hits the fan.
The other side of the coin was a friend of mine who had severe smoke in the cockpit at altitude northbound over the slightly high (Alpine) ground. He sent a Mayday requesting an emergency descent and was told to standby!
Whether there was a language difficulty or ATC were unused to talking to a pilot using an oxygen mask I know not.
My friend diverted himself towards LSGG and the first useful conversation he had with ATC was when he changed frequency to the Swiss.
Smoke in the cockpit is almost the ultimate killer. If it cannot be controlled then you have about 11 minutes to get yourself and the aircraft on the ground.
Congratulations; you did a great job and that is what we all hope would happen when the merde hits the fan.
The other side of the coin was a friend of mine who had severe smoke in the cockpit at altitude northbound over the slightly high (Alpine) ground. He sent a Mayday requesting an emergency descent and was told to standby!
Whether there was a language difficulty or ATC were unused to talking to a pilot using an oxygen mask I know not.
My friend diverted himself towards LSGG and the first useful conversation he had with ATC was when he changed frequency to the Swiss.
Smoke in the cockpit is almost the ultimate killer. If it cannot be controlled then you have about 11 minutes to get yourself and the aircraft on the ground.
Last edited by JW411; 14th Jul 2010 at 18:59.
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JW471,
I've had to talk with pilots with oygen masks. Even in French, in normal situations (fighter's pilots) that's way harder to understand.
Regarding your friend's situation, he was on frequency with Marseille, not far (less than 11 min from the field ?)from Geneva airspace. I've never worked in Marseille ACC, but I did in Reims ACC and I know that Geneva airspace is cut in slices : one level, one sector.
Maybe (only a "might be") the fastest solution for your friend was to be sent on frequency with Geneva : they have electronic devices to deal with this kind of descent through their sectors, which we don't have. The French controler would have had a huge amount of co-ordinations to make, as the Swiss one has just to push a button to know what's below.
Maybe the time between "stand by" and "contact" was used to make the right co-ordination to be sure there was no conflicting traffic during the descent. Your friend didn't hear that (that wasn't his problem then). I understand time can seem very long in this kind of situations.
Note that the Swiss controler was aware of the situation before the first contact, the French controler wasn't until it had already begun...
But I wasn't there, I could be completely mistaking and you could be absolutely right (which I don't hope).
I've had to talk with pilots with oygen masks. Even in French, in normal situations (fighter's pilots) that's way harder to understand.
Regarding your friend's situation, he was on frequency with Marseille, not far (less than 11 min from the field ?)from Geneva airspace. I've never worked in Marseille ACC, but I did in Reims ACC and I know that Geneva airspace is cut in slices : one level, one sector.
Maybe (only a "might be") the fastest solution for your friend was to be sent on frequency with Geneva : they have electronic devices to deal with this kind of descent through their sectors, which we don't have. The French controler would have had a huge amount of co-ordinations to make, as the Swiss one has just to push a button to know what's below.
Maybe the time between "stand by" and "contact" was used to make the right co-ordination to be sure there was no conflicting traffic during the descent. Your friend didn't hear that (that wasn't his problem then). I understand time can seem very long in this kind of situations.
Note that the Swiss controler was aware of the situation before the first contact, the French controler wasn't until it had already begun...
But I wasn't there, I could be completely mistaking and you could be absolutely right (which I don't hope).
BrATCO:
I am grateful for your reply. I have absolutely no doubt that you would have given my friend a lot more help than he actually got. The nearest airfield was probably Lyons but he was getting no worthwhile help from French ATC so he headed for Geneva.
If it makes you feel better, a friend of mine had an engine fire (genuine) in the eastern Mediterranean one night and put out an instant Mayday.
The response from Athenai was "Station transmitting, Stand By, Speedbird 403 carry on with your report".
I am grateful for your reply. I have absolutely no doubt that you would have given my friend a lot more help than he actually got. The nearest airfield was probably Lyons but he was getting no worthwhile help from French ATC so he headed for Geneva.
If it makes you feel better, a friend of mine had an engine fire (genuine) in the eastern Mediterranean one night and put out an instant Mayday.
The response from Athenai was "Station transmitting, Stand By, Speedbird 403 carry on with your report".
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Could all you ATC units out there discriminate against french and Spanish A/C, i.e put them in holds 
, vector them off track to allow UK A/C to land ahead etc etc ?
We see this every day in Spain, and now in France.
, vector them off track to allow UK A/C to land ahead etc etc ?We see this every day in Spain, and now in France.
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I find this last comment amusing as the same feeling of victimization is also in the air amongst French pilots feeling BA A/C always come first at LHR, LH A/C always come first in FRA and IB always come first in MAD. Which is cràp obviously. French pilots go beserck on being badly treated (supposedly) in Paris and that gets me in stitches everytime as they actually believe in it.
Now I notice this is classic consideration throughout the european pilot community.
Now I notice this is classic consideration throughout the european pilot community.
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The supposed discrimination in favour of different nationalities makes me smile. Each aircrew wants to be first. EVERY controller wants as many aircraft OFF the frequency as soon as possible. To engineer a system which offers a few track miles less to aircraft (a) whilst meaning more vectoring for aircraft (b)(and associated increase in workload for the ATCO) is not something we do in the UK. In my own particular part of the world I have had complaints from aircraft in the SAME company about their colleague being number one........
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Nice one guys, all pilots moan moan whinge whinge on and on and on some more.
Make no mistake, the Spanish will vector way off track if they can land some countrymen first.
Own little bubbles ?
errrrhhhhhhhh
Make no mistake, the Spanish will vector way off track if they can land some countrymen first.
Own little bubbles ?
errrrhhhhhhhh
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You know when the French chat to each other in French on the RT?! Well I find it so hard to work out if they are waiting for a response or not cause I can't speak French so I find it best just to transmit. If I have interrupted, well its not my fault! You should try it sometime! 
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You know when the French chat to each other in French on the RT?! Well I find it so hard to work out if they are waiting for a response or not cause I can't speak French so I find it best just to transmit. If I have interrupted, well its not my fault! You should try it sometime!
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Strike on Wednesday
Anyway, those overworked and underpaid French ATCOs are going back on strike on Wednesday. About time too, must have been at least 4 weeks since last time.
What I can't understand is their timing: usually they do it on the 1st weekend of July to properly impact on those people going on holiday or, even better, the last weekend of July/1st weekend of August. Then you can really ground the whole of Europe. They are losing their touch I tell you. What's the point of being a small group of self-serving, self-interested, privileged, civil servants if you can't
off an entire continent? Beats me...
What I can't understand is their timing: usually they do it on the 1st weekend of July to properly impact on those people going on holiday or, even better, the last weekend of July/1st weekend of August. Then you can really ground the whole of Europe. They are losing their touch I tell you. What's the point of being a small group of self-serving, self-interested, privileged, civil servants if you can't
off an entire continent? Beats me...
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Yes, this situation is unbareable to us. You're right to complain but consider that we, at AF and all French airlines have to put up with french ATC work to rule strike and recurrent strikes on most short haul flights and 50% of our long haul flights. There is a deepening canyon between a fringe of the French ATCOs and French pilots and that situation is reaching its peak at this very moment as several company pilot reports have been dug out unwillingly and published in several major national newspapers.
To many, ATCOs are putting their own T&Cs in jeopardy in the longer run, they're digging their own grave. They're infuriating the entire country by striking again and again and the word is spread that some officials have decided to tackle the "ATCOs issue" once and for all.
To many, ATCOs are putting their own T&Cs in jeopardy in the longer run, they're digging their own grave. They're infuriating the entire country by striking again and again and the word is spread that some officials have decided to tackle the "ATCOs issue" once and for all.