Afriqiyah Airbus 330 Crash
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YouTube - Landing at Tripoli International Airport, Libya
that's an interesting video, landing on rwy 09 at Tripoli airport. Between minute 4.01 and 4.05 is the crash site of Afriqiyah Airbus 330. You can see the Mosque near the crash site on the background (4.01). Maybe this will help you C-SAR with placing the photos on the crash site.
that's an interesting video, landing on rwy 09 at Tripoli airport. Between minute 4.01 and 4.05 is the crash site of Afriqiyah Airbus 330. You can see the Mosque near the crash site on the background (4.01). Maybe this will help you C-SAR with placing the photos on the crash site.
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White Knight; If you care to look at Afriqiya and Libyan Airlines safety record you will find that that they are some of the best in the world. This was accomplished in spite of punishing economic embargoes in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's, where maintenance was at its lowest and poor airport facilities made operations extremely difficult, yet the safety record is enviable. Libyan pilots are trained to the highest standards at Oxford and, formerly,Hamble, and have earned the admiration of their line trainers at Lufthansa and Air France. No doubt, after this accident, you will see state of the art ILS equipment installed at Tripoli.. but its locking the stable doors after the event.Please dont blame Libyan pilots... ask any professional who dealt with them.
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So what do you put the 737-800 hull losses down to in the past year or so? Or is your prejudice only restricted to one manufacturer?
738 (or any 73x) losses as % of total fleet size
vs
A330 losses as % of total fleet size
***************
OR:
Compare hull losses per total segments (operating cycles) flown.
Footnote: To be fair, the early years of A330 ops were quite safe.
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I have RADALT, I was far from happy with them... Neither were my co-workers from Airbus who had to train them... maybe more will come to light when they look at the training records of some of the pilots currently flying Airbus A/C in Libya.
For the record I'm not talking about the Brookfield pilots... but the local pilots.
Some are ok... the young ones... but the older guys for the most part do not have a clue.
PT6A
For the record I'm not talking about the Brookfield pilots... but the local pilots.
Some are ok... the young ones... but the older guys for the most part do not have a clue.
PT6A
SkyGod
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Please dont blame Libyan pilots... ask any professional who dealt with them.
Were they Chinese or Mexican? Perhaps Swedish?
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The power line was hit before the impact point.
H
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Libyan pilots
I have no idea about the young Libyan pilots, but I know that a lot of the "old" Libyan pilots of my generation (some 40 or 50 of them) are working with Qatar Airways on state-of-the-art equipment and they are doing very nicely thank you. The Qataris are very happy with them and they have been there for many years since the embargo. I have heard of a lot dumber accidents commited by American and European carriers. I think that ICAO should seriously penalise airports that dont come up to scratch, that is where the main blame lies. This was an accident WAITING to happen, and it could have happened to a Mexican, Chinese or a Swedish pilot, so lets keep prejudice out of this sad event.
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It is not prejudice, maybe part of the problem is that the "good" pilots left for other airlines..
Leaving behind a brain drain.. pilots who have been sat at home in some cases for 10 years (on full pay) then to be drafted in to the Airbus etc.
Some have only DH6 time before flying for Light Air Transport and are now in the L/H seat of Libyan and Afriqiyah Airbus jets.
Yes this was an accident waiting to happen and it is a Libyan problem for the reasons below: -
Airport is well below ICAO standards, ATC, NAVAIDS, runway, fod etc
LYCAA lacks any teeth and is just part of the airline basically
Airline lacks proper training CRM ETC
Some pilots are way below standards... but are passed for internal reasons.
Ex-pat input is not welcome with regard to training.
Crew rest is nothing more than a standing joke - airlines are operating without a roster... indeed many times forgeting a pilot is already flying... and wondering why he is not at the hotel for pick up!
I could go on and on and on... the whole thing is a mess so yes it was an accident waiting to happen.
I hope that this will really shine the spotlight on Libya and action will be taken against them.
They dont have the incident free record many people think... If only the SAFA reports were public documents it would be VERY telling.
PT6A
Leaving behind a brain drain.. pilots who have been sat at home in some cases for 10 years (on full pay) then to be drafted in to the Airbus etc.
Some have only DH6 time before flying for Light Air Transport and are now in the L/H seat of Libyan and Afriqiyah Airbus jets.
Yes this was an accident waiting to happen and it is a Libyan problem for the reasons below: -
Airport is well below ICAO standards, ATC, NAVAIDS, runway, fod etc
LYCAA lacks any teeth and is just part of the airline basically
Airline lacks proper training CRM ETC
Some pilots are way below standards... but are passed for internal reasons.
Ex-pat input is not welcome with regard to training.
Crew rest is nothing more than a standing joke - airlines are operating without a roster... indeed many times forgeting a pilot is already flying... and wondering why he is not at the hotel for pick up!
I could go on and on and on... the whole thing is a mess so yes it was an accident waiting to happen.
I hope that this will really shine the spotlight on Libya and action will be taken against them.
They dont have the incident free record many people think... If only the SAFA reports were public documents it would be VERY telling.
PT6A
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Thank you PT6, you have hit the nail on the head! ICAO and IATA seem to turn a blind eye to African airports that dont meet standards. This is as much the international aviation organisations' fault as it is the Libyan CAA if someone is looking for a scapegoat. I think there needs to be a big shakeup in the inspection standards and enforcement by these agencies that leaves no space for ambiguity. No airport should be the weakest link in the transport chain.
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Yes it is about time RADALT.... The worst thing is... Tripoli is about the best airport in Libya! That or HLLB.
Everything else is not even approved! Or on the other hand... maybe that is a good thing at least they are honest about it on the charts!
If you are flying for QR next time you bring the 330 just look at all the holes, rocks, and other crap all the way from the runway to the parking stand... there is stuff everywhere.
Not to mention every man and his dog driving at a stupid rate of knots on the ramp.... under no sort of control... you are neither safe in the air or on the ground at that airport.
PT6A
Everything else is not even approved! Or on the other hand... maybe that is a good thing at least they are honest about it on the charts!
If you are flying for QR next time you bring the 330 just look at all the holes, rocks, and other crap all the way from the runway to the parking stand... there is stuff everywhere.
Not to mention every man and his dog driving at a stupid rate of knots on the ramp.... under no sort of control... you are neither safe in the air or on the ground at that airport.
PT6A
SkyGod
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So we are blaming the airport now?
Lemme see if I get this straight:
A perfectly fine airplane flown into the ground in Day-VMC with flat terrain surrounding the air field.
It was not the pilot's fault, as it could have happened to anybody.....
If that about sums up what I was reading in a few previous posts, we are all in big trouble, or somebody has been smoking crack-cocaine before hitting the key board....
Lemme see if I get this straight:
A perfectly fine airplane flown into the ground in Day-VMC with flat terrain surrounding the air field.
It was not the pilot's fault, as it could have happened to anybody.....
If that about sums up what I was reading in a few previous posts, we are all in big trouble, or somebody has been smoking crack-cocaine before hitting the key board....
SkyGod
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Yup, been in there a few times, stopping for cheap gas on the way from Jo'burg to Vatery.
It has been 4 years or so, but I don't remember the airport being bad enough to fly a perfectly good aircraft into the ground.
Have landed worse places in Siberia and Africa among others.
Libyan pilots should have the advantage of local knowledge over tourists like me who land there only occasionally.
It has been 4 years or so, but I don't remember the airport being bad enough to fly a perfectly good aircraft into the ground.
Have landed worse places in Siberia and Africa among others.
Libyan pilots should have the advantage of local knowledge over tourists like me who land there only occasionally.
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Towerdog, when many people die as a result of an accident, you look at ALL the events/factors that brought it on. An accident is a CHAIN of events. To stop it from happening again, you have to eliminate or correct all of the factors objectively. Its not a question of blame.
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A 9 hour flight fatigue, a cockeyed VOR/NDB signal, a visual approach into the sun, the rest was Murphy's law. If it could happen it WOULD happen. An ILS would have brought that plane safely right to the threshold automatically. Instead of spending $2M on an ILS facility, now the insurance has to pay out $500M in total. talk about false economies.
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Someone made a decision based on 'what is the risk assessment vs money needed to be outlaid ' and as a consequence the appropriate aids were not put in place.
Mike
Mike