secret service agent denied boarding
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In spite of all of the presumptious rhetoric that has passed so far, I would suggest that perhaps the author at the NY Post is the most level headed of all.
<a href="http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/38543.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/38543.htm</a>
But, now it has gone too far and every one including Carty has pulled out his privates for a measure.
<a href="http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/38543.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/38543.htm</a>
But, now it has gone too far and every one including Carty has pulled out his privates for a measure.
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Dallas Dude,
I suppose if Gooberner apologised to you via e-mail you would have let us know. He got his hands slapped on another thread so they're probably too sore to reply at this time.
Your guy was 100% correct and now it's back to CMT (Country Music Television) for me.
Thanks for setting the record absolutely straight!!!
[ 12 January 2002: Message edited by: DownIn3Green ]</p>
I suppose if Gooberner apologised to you via e-mail you would have let us know. He got his hands slapped on another thread so they're probably too sore to reply at this time.
Your guy was 100% correct and now it's back to CMT (Country Music Television) for me.
Thanks for setting the record absolutely straight!!!
[ 12 January 2002: Message edited by: DownIn3Green ]</p>
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We should all support the actions of this AA Captain. I would have also denied boarding to this arrogant ass. By Law, we are responsible for the safety of everyone who enters our aircraft. If that means stepping on a few toes, then so be it. If that jerk had not been removed and an incident had occurred, then the FAA would be investigating the ailine and the Captain as to why he was not denied boarding. I am sure that that the law firm representing this Secret Service agent would have also been proud to represent those Arab hijackers if they had been denied boarding on September 11.
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Hey Capt. You are right on the money, responsability demands authority. Never accept one without the other. The AA Captain understood this, all the backseat drivers mean nothing
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Just my 2 cents....
Guv, check this out, FAR 91.3(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
In laymans terms, and in the context of this thread, that means that the PIC can boot ANYBODY off the a/c if he so desires. End of story.
Although I do not fly for AA, the management at my company (Jet Aviation) has given me strict orders to examine each and every bag/box/whatever before loading, to positively identify each and every pax before boarding, and more importantly, anyone who squawks about it SHALL NOT BE ALLOWED TO BOARD THE AIRCRAFT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Violaters of this policy recieve immediate discharge. Even regular charter customers whom we know get this treatment, and you know what, they ALL agree with it (so far).
I will not go into all our other security protocols here.
Others have mentioned the Supreme Court and rulings concerning the searching of bags on public transport. That applies to law enforcement only. Employees of said transport are not restricted by this ruling, therefore the flight attendant who looked into the SS agent's bag did not break the law.
It seems to this old country boy, that AA didn't become the 800 pound gorilla via a policy of harassment/discrimination....
Lastly, had I been faced with the same situation as the AA Captain, I would have done the same thing. "You're outta here, bub". Pure and simple, I've got too many other things to worry about, and don't have the time/energy/inclination to deal with some raving ass%$#@. Especially if he/she claims to be a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE and cannot fill out forms correctly. I think the AA Captain should be given a medal, and held up for all to see as a shining example of truth, virtue and the American way.
Guv, check this out, FAR 91.3(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
In laymans terms, and in the context of this thread, that means that the PIC can boot ANYBODY off the a/c if he so desires. End of story.
Although I do not fly for AA, the management at my company (Jet Aviation) has given me strict orders to examine each and every bag/box/whatever before loading, to positively identify each and every pax before boarding, and more importantly, anyone who squawks about it SHALL NOT BE ALLOWED TO BOARD THE AIRCRAFT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Violaters of this policy recieve immediate discharge. Even regular charter customers whom we know get this treatment, and you know what, they ALL agree with it (so far).
I will not go into all our other security protocols here.
Others have mentioned the Supreme Court and rulings concerning the searching of bags on public transport. That applies to law enforcement only. Employees of said transport are not restricted by this ruling, therefore the flight attendant who looked into the SS agent's bag did not break the law.
It seems to this old country boy, that AA didn't become the 800 pound gorilla via a policy of harassment/discrimination....
Lastly, had I been faced with the same situation as the AA Captain, I would have done the same thing. "You're outta here, bub". Pure and simple, I've got too many other things to worry about, and don't have the time/energy/inclination to deal with some raving ass%$#@. Especially if he/she claims to be a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE and cannot fill out forms correctly. I think the AA Captain should be given a medal, and held up for all to see as a shining example of truth, virtue and the American way.
Thread Starter
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DownIn3Green
This website is a GREAT chance for us all to share our opinions (just like hangar talk should be).
When we're all sitting around shooting the s**t it's usually easy to spot a Walter Mitty. Once spotted, and identified, it's fun and games as usual.
The difference on pprune is that there are a few people masquerading as the real thing who should have a disclaimer attached. They continually pretend to be all-seeing, all-knowing when that's actually a bit of a stretch.
I appreciate many of these peoples' informative articles. It's a bit frustrating though, when they cross over and start to pass themselves off as "enlightened" aviation personnel. With the constant addition of new ppruners it seems we have to go through this process too often.
The mere addition of the words ...in my opinion...or...I believe... would identify fact from fiction, instead of passing off third hand knowledge as first hand.
Enough of this crap...here's another article with an opinion!
Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Wednesday, January 9, 2002
Pilot was right; agent wasn't
Have we learned nothing?
Have we learned nothing at all from the crash course in national
security that's been under way for about four months?
Sometimes I wonder. How else to explain the ridiculous drama that
has followed a Christmas Day conflict at Baltimore-Washington
International Airport between an Arab-American Secret Service
agent and an American Airlines pilot?
The pilot's story is that the agent - on his way to Texas to
protect the president - left the aircraft, leaving his carry-on
bag in his seat.
A flight attendant observed books in his seat that seemed to be,
according to the pilot's statement, "in Arabic-style print." This
spurred the pilot to review the passenger's Form E2, presented by
all law enforcement personnel carrying weapons onto a flight.
The pilot called the form, an incomplete carbon copy,
"unreadable." His statement continues: "I then had the agent come
back and give me a new AA E2. Again this form was filled out
improperly. I left my seat to speak to the individual. He
appeared nervous and anxious."
As calls were made to ascertain the agent's identity (a
cumbersome process slowed by layers of bureaucracy), he
apparently grew more testy.
As the pilot was given what he says was the third improperly
completed E2 form, lacking a signature, phone number and travel
status designation for the agent, "this person came up to me with
loud abusive comments about being denied boarding. [He said] he
had the powers of the White House behind him."
The pilot said police at the scene agreed with his concern about
an armed passenger losing his cool.
The Service Operations Center manager at the airport also
released a statement describing the maze-like series of phone
calls in the quest to identify the agent.
This had to be frustrating for a man who was only trying to get
to Texas to do his duty protecting the president. But the bottom
line is that his paperwork was sufficiently lacking and his
behavior sufficiently disturbing that the pilot did what any
pilot should do, before or after Sept. 11: He erred on the side
of caution.
What has the captain earned for this? Trumped-up charges of
racism.
Attorneys John Relman and Christy Lopez have been making the TV
rounds, asserting - without any knowledge whatsoever - that the
pilot denied the agent boarding because of a distaste for
Arab-Americans.
Lawyers can mouth off all they want; it's a free country. But
what disturbs me most about this is that the agent obviously
condones it.
I can understand and even forgive a brief interlude of lost
composure at the gate. What I cannot tolerate is an extended
campaign of excuse-making that includes baseless playing of the
race card.
And please let us remember that to whatever degree the pilot may
have taken the agent's race into account, that, too, is justified
in light of an act of terrorism committed by people of the same
ethnicity.
If this gentleman cannot handle the stress of a delay at the
airport, I wonder about his fitness for duty in a job that can
yield rigors far more demanding. He of all people should
understand the new and more stringent cautiousness of the
post-9/11 world.
For his part, President Bush has said he'd be plenty mad if he
discovered that the agent was denied boarding for race reasons.
Well, Mr. President, how about some anger over one of your agents
flipping out in the face of a pilot just doing his job?
The pilot, not the agent, deserves the benefit of the doubt. One
is a trained professional who did his job, exercising the caution
that Bush himself has called us to exercise, with witnesses to
back him up.
The other is also a trained professional. But he abrogated the
letter and spirit of that training by thwarting the authority of
a pilot, whose judgment is final in such matters. That's the law.
The agent's increasingly annoying lawyers ask whether pilots
should have such unilateral authority. That answer is an
emphatic, undeniable, more-clear-than-ever "yes."
This pilot is a hero. This Secret Service agent needs a different
job.
Mark Davis is a talk-show host on WBAP/820 AM. [email protected]
This website is a GREAT chance for us all to share our opinions (just like hangar talk should be).
When we're all sitting around shooting the s**t it's usually easy to spot a Walter Mitty. Once spotted, and identified, it's fun and games as usual.
The difference on pprune is that there are a few people masquerading as the real thing who should have a disclaimer attached. They continually pretend to be all-seeing, all-knowing when that's actually a bit of a stretch.
I appreciate many of these peoples' informative articles. It's a bit frustrating though, when they cross over and start to pass themselves off as "enlightened" aviation personnel. With the constant addition of new ppruners it seems we have to go through this process too often.
The mere addition of the words ...in my opinion...or...I believe... would identify fact from fiction, instead of passing off third hand knowledge as first hand.
Enough of this crap...here's another article with an opinion!
Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Wednesday, January 9, 2002
Pilot was right; agent wasn't
Have we learned nothing?
Have we learned nothing at all from the crash course in national
security that's been under way for about four months?
Sometimes I wonder. How else to explain the ridiculous drama that
has followed a Christmas Day conflict at Baltimore-Washington
International Airport between an Arab-American Secret Service
agent and an American Airlines pilot?
The pilot's story is that the agent - on his way to Texas to
protect the president - left the aircraft, leaving his carry-on
bag in his seat.
A flight attendant observed books in his seat that seemed to be,
according to the pilot's statement, "in Arabic-style print." This
spurred the pilot to review the passenger's Form E2, presented by
all law enforcement personnel carrying weapons onto a flight.
The pilot called the form, an incomplete carbon copy,
"unreadable." His statement continues: "I then had the agent come
back and give me a new AA E2. Again this form was filled out
improperly. I left my seat to speak to the individual. He
appeared nervous and anxious."
As calls were made to ascertain the agent's identity (a
cumbersome process slowed by layers of bureaucracy), he
apparently grew more testy.
As the pilot was given what he says was the third improperly
completed E2 form, lacking a signature, phone number and travel
status designation for the agent, "this person came up to me with
loud abusive comments about being denied boarding. [He said] he
had the powers of the White House behind him."
The pilot said police at the scene agreed with his concern about
an armed passenger losing his cool.
The Service Operations Center manager at the airport also
released a statement describing the maze-like series of phone
calls in the quest to identify the agent.
This had to be frustrating for a man who was only trying to get
to Texas to do his duty protecting the president. But the bottom
line is that his paperwork was sufficiently lacking and his
behavior sufficiently disturbing that the pilot did what any
pilot should do, before or after Sept. 11: He erred on the side
of caution.
What has the captain earned for this? Trumped-up charges of
racism.
Attorneys John Relman and Christy Lopez have been making the TV
rounds, asserting - without any knowledge whatsoever - that the
pilot denied the agent boarding because of a distaste for
Arab-Americans.
Lawyers can mouth off all they want; it's a free country. But
what disturbs me most about this is that the agent obviously
condones it.
I can understand and even forgive a brief interlude of lost
composure at the gate. What I cannot tolerate is an extended
campaign of excuse-making that includes baseless playing of the
race card.
And please let us remember that to whatever degree the pilot may
have taken the agent's race into account, that, too, is justified
in light of an act of terrorism committed by people of the same
ethnicity.
If this gentleman cannot handle the stress of a delay at the
airport, I wonder about his fitness for duty in a job that can
yield rigors far more demanding. He of all people should
understand the new and more stringent cautiousness of the
post-9/11 world.
For his part, President Bush has said he'd be plenty mad if he
discovered that the agent was denied boarding for race reasons.
Well, Mr. President, how about some anger over one of your agents
flipping out in the face of a pilot just doing his job?
The pilot, not the agent, deserves the benefit of the doubt. One
is a trained professional who did his job, exercising the caution
that Bush himself has called us to exercise, with witnesses to
back him up.
The other is also a trained professional. But he abrogated the
letter and spirit of that training by thwarting the authority of
a pilot, whose judgment is final in such matters. That's the law.
The agent's increasingly annoying lawyers ask whether pilots
should have such unilateral authority. That answer is an
emphatic, undeniable, more-clear-than-ever "yes."
This pilot is a hero. This Secret Service agent needs a different
job.
Mark Davis is a talk-show host on WBAP/820 AM. [email protected]
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I'm not taking the agent's side in this by any means. He should have just sucked it up and we'd all have been none the wiser.
However..
Especially if he/she claims to be a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE and cannot fill out forms correctly.
1. The original accreditation for the cancelled flight was presumably OK.
2. The flight number on the form was changed (the 'discrepancy' ?) by an AA CSR.
3. I doubt the agents prepare these forms themselves.
And without being there, I don't know who started the willy waving (to quote Kate Adie). If the agent was such an a'hole why did the Capt. only file an incident report after it all became public ? Smacks of CYA to me.
However..
Especially if he/she claims to be a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE and cannot fill out forms correctly.
1. The original accreditation for the cancelled flight was presumably OK.
2. The flight number on the form was changed (the 'discrepancy' ?) by an AA CSR.
3. I doubt the agents prepare these forms themselves.
And without being there, I don't know who started the willy waving (to quote Kate Adie). If the agent was such an a'hole why did the Capt. only file an incident report after it all became public ? Smacks of CYA to me.
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>If the agent was such an a'hole why did the Capt. only file an incident report after it all became public ? Smacks of CYA to me.
<
Unless the Captain was immediately pulled off his trip (which I'm pretty sure was not the case) we was WORKING. The media jumped all over this in about six hours. How was the Captain supposed to compose an accurate, level headed report, submit it to the company, and have it released to the press before the s*** hit the fan?
You are no less guilty of using inflammatory speculation than the media. Give the guy a break, he was using his best judgement to handle a difficult, high profile situation. He did his job in a professional manner, quite unlike the SS guy, who immediately lawyered up and started crying discrimination via the media.
By the way, an airline pilot's primary motivation in filing a report IS to CYA. If an official recollection of events is not received, the media's skewed version of the situation is legitimized.
<
Unless the Captain was immediately pulled off his trip (which I'm pretty sure was not the case) we was WORKING. The media jumped all over this in about six hours. How was the Captain supposed to compose an accurate, level headed report, submit it to the company, and have it released to the press before the s*** hit the fan?
You are no less guilty of using inflammatory speculation than the media. Give the guy a break, he was using his best judgement to handle a difficult, high profile situation. He did his job in a professional manner, quite unlike the SS guy, who immediately lawyered up and started crying discrimination via the media.
By the way, an airline pilot's primary motivation in filing a report IS to CYA. If an official recollection of events is not received, the media's skewed version of the situation is legitimized.
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Going by what appeared on CNN...
1132 EST Dec 27 story is first posted (a tad more than 6 hours). AA internal incident reports posted Jan 2, report of Capt. filing misconduct complaint posted Jan 3.
Understandable on this board that overwhelming support is for the Capt., and as I have said more than once, I support him too if it went down according to the AA version. If you wish to blindly ignore reports that maybe it didn't that's your prerogative. I need all the facts before making a categorical judgment.
I'm still not clear on the sequence of events. Maybe I missed it, but if his form was unacceptable why was he allowed to board AA1715 at all ? And what caused the Capt. to then review his clearance ? The 'grossed out' FA (#1 I assume ).
[quote]A few moments later the #1 flight attendant brought to my attention that she and other flight attendants were concerned about the actions of one of the pax<hr></blockquote>
Tan IIRC and others were right IMO in surmising that this Capt. was dropped in it by the CC whose actions and motives are noticeably absent from most of the accounts.
Inflammatory speculation ? Hardly. I just want to know WTF happened and see the guilty smacked, whoever they are.
1132 EST Dec 27 story is first posted (a tad more than 6 hours). AA internal incident reports posted Jan 2, report of Capt. filing misconduct complaint posted Jan 3.
Understandable on this board that overwhelming support is for the Capt., and as I have said more than once, I support him too if it went down according to the AA version. If you wish to blindly ignore reports that maybe it didn't that's your prerogative. I need all the facts before making a categorical judgment.
I'm still not clear on the sequence of events. Maybe I missed it, but if his form was unacceptable why was he allowed to board AA1715 at all ? And what caused the Capt. to then review his clearance ? The 'grossed out' FA (#1 I assume ).
[quote]A few moments later the #1 flight attendant brought to my attention that she and other flight attendants were concerned about the actions of one of the pax<hr></blockquote>
Tan IIRC and others were right IMO in surmising that this Capt. was dropped in it by the CC whose actions and motives are noticeably absent from most of the accounts.
Inflammatory speculation ? Hardly. I just want to know WTF happened and see the guilty smacked, whoever they are.
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Given that, as a Flight Safety Officer, I often had trouble getting an MOR out of some Captains within 48 hours, I am quite impressed that the Captain in this case produce such a comprehensive report in such a short time.
As I said before, the Captain's decision in such a case is final. The reasons are irrelevant. He is the final responsible authority for the safety of the aircraft, its crew and all passengers on board. He made a decision. It is not up to the courts to challenge that decision based on such a nebulous concept as racial discrimination. A Secret Service Agent should be able to understand and accept such a decision. If he cannot, he has no business being in the Service, particularly given the current nervousness.
The Captain had every right to insist upon the paperwork being correct to every box filled in, all t's crossed and i's dotted. He needed to assure himself that his arcraft, crew and passengers were safe.
It is very, very easy to judge this incident with the 20-20 hindsight of a Tuesday morning armchair quarterback. But he had to decide the case there and then. He did so. Sure, he has later to provide a certain amount of justification, but anyone who errs on the side of safety is OK by me.
Anyone criticising his decision has to convince me that they could be as certain as is reasonably possible that the aircraft was not endangered by this person's continued presence on board. I am (so far) not convinced.
As I said before, the Captain's decision in such a case is final. The reasons are irrelevant. He is the final responsible authority for the safety of the aircraft, its crew and all passengers on board. He made a decision. It is not up to the courts to challenge that decision based on such a nebulous concept as racial discrimination. A Secret Service Agent should be able to understand and accept such a decision. If he cannot, he has no business being in the Service, particularly given the current nervousness.
The Captain had every right to insist upon the paperwork being correct to every box filled in, all t's crossed and i's dotted. He needed to assure himself that his arcraft, crew and passengers were safe.
It is very, very easy to judge this incident with the 20-20 hindsight of a Tuesday morning armchair quarterback. But he had to decide the case there and then. He did so. Sure, he has later to provide a certain amount of justification, but anyone who errs on the side of safety is OK by me.
Anyone criticising his decision has to convince me that they could be as certain as is reasonably possible that the aircraft was not endangered by this person's continued presence on board. I am (so far) not convinced.
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"The Captains decision is final"
Right or wrong?? Good or Bad??? Is CRM only in the cockpit?? Not when standing in the doorway.
I was reminded of this episode on AA while watching a movie the other night called Crimson Tide. There the Captain commanded a nuclear submarine and was going with his decision all the way. He couldn't be wrong.
It is time for AA to admit that the decision made was unfortunately wrong.
Right or wrong?? Good or Bad??? Is CRM only in the cockpit?? Not when standing in the doorway.
I was reminded of this episode on AA while watching a movie the other night called Crimson Tide. There the Captain commanded a nuclear submarine and was going with his decision all the way. He couldn't be wrong.
It is time for AA to admit that the decision made was unfortunately wrong.
Charlie Mike,
Is your occupation "airline management" as listed in your profile? If so, this airline pilot is not surprised that your response is only backed up with a movie you saw, versus actual command experience.
It must kill you to look at people who
don't have to fire off a memo to headquarters
for permission to take a leak.
[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: WhatsaLizad? ]</p>
Is your occupation "airline management" as listed in your profile? If so, this airline pilot is not surprised that your response is only backed up with a movie you saw, versus actual command experience.
It must kill you to look at people who
don't have to fire off a memo to headquarters
for permission to take a leak.
[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: WhatsaLizad? ]</p>
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Charlie Mike,
You had better believe his decision is final.
Your feeble attempt at using CRM as an analogy together with a fictitious movie script only displays your complete lack of understanding of the responsibilities that a Captain can be faced with.
Have you bothered to read the preceding pages or did you just decide to read this last page?
It appears the Captain sought the assistance of Police and SOC so your definition of CRM must be different to the rest of us.
Stick to your paperwork and don't bother commenting here with inane comparisons that only serves to show your ignorance.
You had better believe his decision is final.
Your feeble attempt at using CRM as an analogy together with a fictitious movie script only displays your complete lack of understanding of the responsibilities that a Captain can be faced with.
Have you bothered to read the preceding pages or did you just decide to read this last page?
It appears the Captain sought the assistance of Police and SOC so your definition of CRM must be different to the rest of us.
Stick to your paperwork and don't bother commenting here with inane comparisons that only serves to show your ignorance.
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Ive been reading this thread and the previous one with interest.
The Actions of this ‘Highly decorated Agent’ after being refused flying onboard an AA flight say more about his ‘Attitude’ than anything else. Instead of understanding that after the events of 11/09/01, he might expect problems if his paperwork wasnt exactly right and just quietly fixing it with a few calls to his superiors, he gets the ethnic equality people involved, then after all the media interest decided to sue!!! I cant understand why the Secret Service of all organisations have let this get so far out of hand, it does not say much for the judgement of the entire service, not just the of the Agent concerned.
As for myself, I hope ALL flight crew on the aircraft I travel on are not detered from making similar decisions where safety is an issue because of this law suit. I would be ‘Mad as heck’ if you did.
Regards, SD.
The Actions of this ‘Highly decorated Agent’ after being refused flying onboard an AA flight say more about his ‘Attitude’ than anything else. Instead of understanding that after the events of 11/09/01, he might expect problems if his paperwork wasnt exactly right and just quietly fixing it with a few calls to his superiors, he gets the ethnic equality people involved, then after all the media interest decided to sue!!! I cant understand why the Secret Service of all organisations have let this get so far out of hand, it does not say much for the judgement of the entire service, not just the of the Agent concerned.
As for myself, I hope ALL flight crew on the aircraft I travel on are not detered from making similar decisions where safety is an issue because of this law suit. I would be ‘Mad as heck’ if you did.
Regards, SD.
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More "input" for us to chew on. Interesting reading:
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37201-2002Jan12.html" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37201-2002Jan12.html</A>
On a frequent flyer site in the USA, an AA employee said it looked liked the situation degenerated into a "pissing contest" between the Agent and the Capt. I agree with that too.
dAAvid -
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37201-2002Jan12.html" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37201-2002Jan12.html</A>
On a frequent flyer site in the USA, an AA employee said it looked liked the situation degenerated into a "pissing contest" between the Agent and the Capt. I agree with that too.
dAAvid -
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Isn't this what I have said several times?
[quote]In his statement, Shater said that during his 75-minute wait to board the plane while the pilot checked his credentials, "the pilot never just called my supervisor or any one of a half-dozen independently verifiable numbers that would have confirmed my identity in minutes."
"I offered such numbers and offered to assist in any way I could," Shater said. "When another American Airlines employee made that call that evening . . . my identity . . . was verified in just a few minutes."<hr></blockquote>
and
[quote]But Shater has another version. "After over an hour of the pilot humiliating me, I did tell the pilot that his treatment of me was unprofessional. When he responded, 'Never again address me directly,' I showed him my credentials and told him that those credentials get me into the White House, not just his plane.<hr></blockquote>
Sorry, but to me (based entirely on the various press items I've read and without any particular 'inside information') it still looks like the crew weren't prepared to carry him because of who he was.
And that's racism.
I suspect that one of two things will happen now. This is blowing up into a major issue where opinion is being polarised - and which is going to have a serious effect on AA (especially if they lose the US government business, however unlikely that that would be - though it could happen if GWB does indeed, get "madder than heck").
The alternative is that an out of court settlement will be reached with the agent.
My money's on the latter.
[quote]In his statement, Shater said that during his 75-minute wait to board the plane while the pilot checked his credentials, "the pilot never just called my supervisor or any one of a half-dozen independently verifiable numbers that would have confirmed my identity in minutes."
"I offered such numbers and offered to assist in any way I could," Shater said. "When another American Airlines employee made that call that evening . . . my identity . . . was verified in just a few minutes."<hr></blockquote>
and
[quote]But Shater has another version. "After over an hour of the pilot humiliating me, I did tell the pilot that his treatment of me was unprofessional. When he responded, 'Never again address me directly,' I showed him my credentials and told him that those credentials get me into the White House, not just his plane.<hr></blockquote>
Sorry, but to me (based entirely on the various press items I've read and without any particular 'inside information') it still looks like the crew weren't prepared to carry him because of who he was.
And that's racism.
I suspect that one of two things will happen now. This is blowing up into a major issue where opinion is being polarised - and which is going to have a serious effect on AA (especially if they lose the US government business, however unlikely that that would be - though it could happen if GWB does indeed, get "madder than heck").
The alternative is that an out of court settlement will be reached with the agent.
My money's on the latter.
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Charlie Mike, yes, the Captain's decision is final. This does not mean that CRM is not practiced.
A Captain who consults where he can, takes others' views and opinions on board and then makes his decision is one who exercises both leadership and command as well as CRM.
A Captain who consults where he can, takes others' views and opinions on board and then makes his decision is one who exercises both leadership and command as well as CRM.
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Bluskis,
I'm not qualified to make any comment on aviation matters except as a passenger, but I am a human, so here goes...
We probably agree on whether the captain's authority is final and I'm sure most of my fellow travellers would feel the same.
I'm not criticising you as I don't know you at all, just that your comment "[...] please decide which side of the racial divide you are on" is the most depressing thing I've read for a long time. I think it's because of the large number of normally reasonable people who I imagine think the same way.
I'm not qualified to make any comment on aviation matters except as a passenger, but I am a human, so here goes...
We probably agree on whether the captain's authority is final and I'm sure most of my fellow travellers would feel the same.
I'm not criticising you as I don't know you at all, just that your comment "[...] please decide which side of the racial divide you are on" is the most depressing thing I've read for a long time. I think it's because of the large number of normally reasonable people who I imagine think the same way.