Ash clouds threaten air traffic
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The following is from Tagesschau, German TV News; Forscher: Vulkanasche stellt Gefahr für Flugzeuge dar | tagesschau.de,
translated by Google: Google Nachricht
translated by Google: Google Nachricht
Measurements show aerosols in cloud of ash after
A scheduled flight research, the new data to the volcanic ash cloud is to bring about Germany, will start in the evening. The final date is 18 clock, a spokeswoman said the German Aerospace Center (DLR) in Oberpfaffenhofen. The flight will take two to three hours.
Researchers confirm danger to aircraft engines
The Icelandic ash cloud over Europe in fact contains dangerous for aircraft volcanic aerosols.
The researchers at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) in Zurich, confirmed by measurements. [Caption: Researchers at the ETH Zurich had the dangerous volcanic aerosols in the ash cloud after.]
Over the weekend had been conducted in Switzerland several measurements with balloons, lasers and measurement aircraft and evaluated, the ETH-Professor of Atmospheric Chemistry, Thomas Peters: "We were at a height between vier and five kilometers find a particularly high proportion of volcanic aerosols. "
Over the weekend had been conducted in Switzerland several measurements with balloons, lasers and measurement aircraft and evaluated, the ETH-Professor of Atmospheric Chemistry, Thomas Peters: "We were at a height between vier and five kilometers find a particularly high proportion of volcanic aerosols. "
For the first time have such amount and structure of the aerosol layer can be recorded scientifically.
For men are not dangerous to the particles, as the concentration was very low at the moment and will filter the air we breathe on the way into the alveoli, Peter said. The daily fine dust by traffic, by contrast, much more dangerous. Glass deposits found in engines
[Caption: The heat could ashes into the engines of the aircraft to fuse the glass.]
For the volcanic aerosols turbine aircraft may be dangerous, since the aerosols melt from the heat in the engines and cause glass deposits. Aircraft with a piston engine, however, can continue to run safely. First, the air is filtered before entering the engine, on the other hand, the pilot flies mostly on sight and can land in emergencies safer than using a large multi-beam passenger aircraft. Meanwhile, a U.S. official confirmed that was found at a NATO fighter jet engine in the glass, which was due to the volcanic ash.
The jet had been found on a test flight over Europe. It is the ashes in the engine gets hot. "You can fly, but it is very dangerous," it said. Last week, already at two F-18 fighter jets of the Finnish Air Force found similar damage to the engine.
German research flight in the evening A scheduled flight research, the new data to the volcanic ash cloud is to bring about Germany, will start in the evening. The final date is 18 clock, a spokeswoman said the German Aerospace Center (DLR) in Oberpfaffenhofen. The flight will take two to three hours.
Why it's different this time.
VictorVector said: Volcanos have erupted before and this action has not been taken before. I am unaware of any incidents except of those flying directly into dense cloud. +++ The reason it's different now is that this volcano erupted under a glacier. The hot rock hitting the ice generated lots of ash pushed higher up in the atmosphere than a 'normal' eruption from other volcanos. Now that the ice is melted, and the meltwater isn't running into the caldera, the ash is not being ejected so high, and not being made in such large quantities. The amount of ash being ejected, and how high it goes also depends on the type of eruption: there are lots of different types - ranging from the slow ooze (Hawai'i) to the big bang (Mt. St Helens, Krakatoa). There were worries about the current eruption that the type of lava was changing from basaltic to something else with a higher gas content, but I've not seen anything on that recently. You'd have to ask a vulcanologist about the different types of eruptions to get more details. This time really is different.
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What about these boys? Just curious, I know its not volcanic ash, but it is ash....
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BA has now cancelled all flights for Tues 20th.
Last updated: 08:30 UK time 19 April 2010
Following further information from the Met Office about the path of the volcanic ash affecting UK airspace and airlines, there will continue to be severe disruption to our schedule.
All British Airways flights to and from London airports are cancelled on Monday 19 April.
Following further information from the Met Office about the path of the volcanic ash affecting UK airspace and airlines, there will continue to be severe disruption to our schedule.
All British Airways flights to and from London airports are cancelled on Monday 19 April.
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It seems quite a rapid decision by CANSO to resume flights ......I work in a UK University where we have some specialists in this area, with links to staff "on the ground" in Iceland.
It appears that the eruption IS entering 'another phase', but exactly what that is remains to be seen. It should be remembered that when Eyjafjallajökull erupted in 1821, the eruption continued on-and-off until 1823, and this also triggered the 1823 eruption of the neighbouring volcano Katla.
As I understand it, the ash production in the current eruption is due to the fact that the volcano is melting the glacier, causing rapid cooling and fragmenting of the magma.
See this article from Dr David Rothery, of the Department of Earth & Environmental Sciences, at The Open University :
Times Online - Eureka Zone - WBLG: Ash plume shows first signs of dying down
"The reason behind the apparent dying down of the ash production is likely to be that the volcano has been cut off from the supply of meltwater, which has until now been pouring into the volcano vent. When the magma hits the ice and water, it cools down incredibly quickly leading it to shatter into tiny fragments, which shatter into fine ash light enough to be carried high into the atmosphere. The evaporating steam helps power the ash up into the sky.
Volcanologists have been predicting that as walls of solid magma build up around the vent the volcano less melt water will feed into the eruption. It looks as though this could have happened now.
"There is no guarantee that the situation will not revert to what was happening Thursday-Sunday, but there are grounds for cautious optimism," said Dr Rothery"
It appears that the eruption IS entering 'another phase', but exactly what that is remains to be seen. It should be remembered that when Eyjafjallajökull erupted in 1821, the eruption continued on-and-off until 1823, and this also triggered the 1823 eruption of the neighbouring volcano Katla.
As I understand it, the ash production in the current eruption is due to the fact that the volcano is melting the glacier, causing rapid cooling and fragmenting of the magma.
See this article from Dr David Rothery, of the Department of Earth & Environmental Sciences, at The Open University :
Times Online - Eureka Zone - WBLG: Ash plume shows first signs of dying down
"The reason behind the apparent dying down of the ash production is likely to be that the volcano has been cut off from the supply of meltwater, which has until now been pouring into the volcano vent. When the magma hits the ice and water, it cools down incredibly quickly leading it to shatter into tiny fragments, which shatter into fine ash light enough to be carried high into the atmosphere. The evaporating steam helps power the ash up into the sky.
Volcanologists have been predicting that as walls of solid magma build up around the vent the volcano less melt water will feed into the eruption. It looks as though this could have happened now.
"There is no guarantee that the situation will not revert to what was happening Thursday-Sunday, but there are grounds for cautious optimism," said Dr Rothery"
"BA seeks state aid amid £20m a day volcano costs - Times Online"
Haven't BA ever heard of Business Interruption insurance?
Most business can't use the EU as a contribution-less insurance policy.
Haven't BA ever heard of Business Interruption insurance?
Most business can't use the EU as a contribution-less insurance policy.
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Chuntering around the UK west country on Saturday in a spam can at 5,000' proved to leave a less than desirable taste/sensation in the mouth, throat, nose and, to a much lesser degree, the eyes.
A quite acrid and somewhat irritant product, to say the least and not one I'd recommend on a regular basis.
It took several cans of Blackthorn more than usual to dissipate said taste.
A quite acrid and somewhat irritant product, to say the least and not one I'd recommend on a regular basis.
It took several cans of Blackthorn more than usual to dissipate said taste.
Re Tornado/RAF probe flights
Sorry spamcan,
As an ex-F3 driver who lectures on jet engines - forget it. High level in a Hawk for huge amounts of danger money maybe, at least there's a chance of gliding somewhere. The best bet for lower levels may be a piston Tutor - easier to fit with the samplers if they aren't heavy. Other than that I think earlier suggestions about Nimrod sound best. You can at least stooge around with two engines shut down, then start them if the in-use engines go. Plus they are sitting around doing nowt at present. Any kipper fleet/R1 drivers care to comment?
As an ex-F3 driver who lectures on jet engines - forget it. High level in a Hawk for huge amounts of danger money maybe, at least there's a chance of gliding somewhere. The best bet for lower levels may be a piston Tutor - easier to fit with the samplers if they aren't heavy. Other than that I think earlier suggestions about Nimrod sound best. You can at least stooge around with two engines shut down, then start them if the in-use engines go. Plus they are sitting around doing nowt at present. Any kipper fleet/R1 drivers care to comment?
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You can at least stooge around with two engines shut down
Over 28 aircraft showing-up, currently flying through the "Volcanic Cloud"
Not too many "falling out of the sky"
Clearly someone needs to get the ducks lined up pretty soon, before this turns into a total farce.
Not too many "falling out of the sky"
Clearly someone needs to get the ducks lined up pretty soon, before this turns into a total farce.
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Channel Island airspace still closed
I reported yesterday that Channel Island airspace was open for inter-island ( Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney for anyone searching using keywords) flights, including commercial flights (mostly Trilanders), but CLOSED for all movements into and out of the zone. On Friday a VFR corridor was created to 50 North and worked well. However it appears that there was an airprox in Jersey with a Challenger jet and this has created general paranoia about the legal consequences of allowing VFR. There is hardly any traffic without commercial flights so why the large numbers of highly qualified ATC staff cant figure out a way of organising lanes with recommended heights N/S bound and speed limiting etc is completely beyond me and my contacts in the GA community. The problem is now having dug themselves a legal hole they are unlikely to change without loss of face.
This is now off the volcano topic, it there a better thread on legal, airspace, madness issues?
STOP PRESS UPDATE 1430z NOTAM is coming out allowing SVFR!!
Someone has rattled the cage in the assylum, or they have no faces to lose?
This is now off the volcano topic, it there a better thread on legal, airspace, madness issues?
STOP PRESS UPDATE 1430z NOTAM is coming out allowing SVFR!!
Someone has rattled the cage in the assylum, or they have no faces to lose?
Last edited by molluscan; 19th Apr 2010 at 14:39. Reason: UPDATED NEWS
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Handouts for BA et all ?
I wondered what you guys thought of the notion that BA is somehow entitled to a bailout ( in the eyes of Willie Walsh as published in the times ) ? Would government money be a good or bad thing for aviation and should funds potentially be applied equally or on a case by case basis, would that create distortion and an uneven playing field.
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Try "Airlines, Airports and Routes" ... you may even find a Thread in existence. And with luck someone else from GSY and JSY will read it! 
MPN11, on The Bigger Rock
MPN11, on The Bigger Rock
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Very good graph of dust/ash concentration in real time is presented on the homepage of the meteoroligical station at Mt. Sonnblick in Austria (elev. 3106m):
www.sonnblick.net/portal/
So the ash IS there - it peaked on the 17th, today it is rising again.
Good luck to all of the operators, who are risking engines, airframes and lives - maybe not with a single flight in contaminated air. But who knows?
That´s not the "safe course of action" we were used to follow until a few days ago!
www.sonnblick.net/portal/
So the ash IS there - it peaked on the 17th, today it is rising again.
Good luck to all of the operators, who are risking engines, airframes and lives - maybe not with a single flight in contaminated air. But who knows?
That´s not the "safe course of action" we were used to follow until a few days ago!
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Hugely irresponsible
Well so far we have 2x USAF F16's, a Belgian F18 with engine damage plus a UK Cranfield atmospheric test ac with significant ash found and seemingly another similar result from the Swiss earlier today.
And yet due to pressure from the airline finance depts talk of LHR opening tomorrow with no evidence that it is safe to do so, none whatsoever...
I don't like where this is going one bit. We all know that if we suffer a double engine failure on a 2 engine civil transport the chances of ever seeing your wife and kids again are as good as nil. The BA 777 at LHR lost his engines 60 seconds from a runway perfectly lined up 3 miles out and everyone agrees it was nothing short of a miracle that didn't end up a smoking hole in the ground...
Personally I don't want to breathe this stuff, I don't want to fly through it and I see no evidence that the problem has been resolved, just that the accountants are pressing for resumption of flight.
ONe point everyone seems to be missing is that a 3 hour jaunt for Willie Walsh in no way compares to the 12-14 hours use per day that most civil aircraft are put to. Within a week I will be taking over an aircraft with 70hrs flying in ash with no means of verifying if there is engine damage or not...
Personally I am praying NATS keeps its nerve.
Desk-pilot
And yet due to pressure from the airline finance depts talk of LHR opening tomorrow with no evidence that it is safe to do so, none whatsoever...
I don't like where this is going one bit. We all know that if we suffer a double engine failure on a 2 engine civil transport the chances of ever seeing your wife and kids again are as good as nil. The BA 777 at LHR lost his engines 60 seconds from a runway perfectly lined up 3 miles out and everyone agrees it was nothing short of a miracle that didn't end up a smoking hole in the ground...
Personally I don't want to breathe this stuff, I don't want to fly through it and I see no evidence that the problem has been resolved, just that the accountants are pressing for resumption of flight.
ONe point everyone seems to be missing is that a 3 hour jaunt for Willie Walsh in no way compares to the 12-14 hours use per day that most civil aircraft are put to. Within a week I will be taking over an aircraft with 70hrs flying in ash with no means of verifying if there is engine damage or not...
Personally I am praying NATS keeps its nerve.
Desk-pilot
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More sizemic activity on Eyjafjallajokull big brother Mt. Katla...
Órói á stöðvum við Eyjafjallajökul
Órói á stöðvum við Eyjafjallajökul
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Chemin
As you wrote...
"What I should have said was "ash" of course. Silly me. I was going to mention, but didn't, soot from the Kuwait oilfields that were ignited during the gulf war, which along with blowing sand, caused huge amounts of "clag" in the area, but did not stop operations.
However, if you think we are not dealing with "grit" and "silicon" what do you suggest it is that has been deposited on my car this morning?"
The danger is of the silicates, not silicon, melting and solidifying as they pass through a jet engine. The point is that if you are at the level where you think the precise composition of the stuff is unimportant, and that the effects of volcanic silicates are similar to those of desert sands or silicon and those of volcanic ash are similar to those of hydrocarbon ash, that suggests to me that you're not really engaging meaningfully with the problem.
My experience is that the melting behaviour of silicates is hugely variable, and that it would be essential to know what exactly was up there before trying to predict its effects on an engine.
"What I should have said was "ash" of course. Silly me. I was going to mention, but didn't, soot from the Kuwait oilfields that were ignited during the gulf war, which along with blowing sand, caused huge amounts of "clag" in the area, but did not stop operations.
However, if you think we are not dealing with "grit" and "silicon" what do you suggest it is that has been deposited on my car this morning?"
The danger is of the silicates, not silicon, melting and solidifying as they pass through a jet engine. The point is that if you are at the level where you think the precise composition of the stuff is unimportant, and that the effects of volcanic silicates are similar to those of desert sands or silicon and those of volcanic ash are similar to those of hydrocarbon ash, that suggests to me that you're not really engaging meaningfully with the problem.
My experience is that the melting behaviour of silicates is hugely variable, and that it would be essential to know what exactly was up there before trying to predict its effects on an engine.
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No idea if this has anything to do with the colcanic ash, but I think it has not been mentioned that a Wideroe Dash 8-100 had an inflight engine shutdown today:
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=42a53334&opt=0
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=42a53334&opt=0