Ash clouds threaten air traffic
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Unless I've missed it, I'm surprised there has been no comment here on this report .... F-16 engine damage
BRUSSELS (AP) -- A senior Western diplomat says several NATO F-16 fighters suffered engine damage after flying through the volcanic ash cloud covering large parts of Europe.
The official declined to provide more details on the military flights, except to say that glasslike deposits were found inside the planes' engines after they patroled over European airspace.
The official declined to provide more details on the military flights, except to say that glasslike deposits were found inside the planes' engines after they patroled over European airspace.
update
BBC News - Volcano cloud as it happens: 19 April
This on the BBC live update page a few minutes ago
"1207 (GMT time) Nato fighter jets have suffered engine damage after flying through volcanic ash cloud, a senior US official has said. The official gave few details except to say that a build-up of glass was found in the jet engines."
"1209 The BBC's Lorna Gordon in Iceland says:
The top of the ash cloud reaching into the sky has lowered. It is no longer registering on weather radar and scientists estimate its maximum height is now around 3,000-4,000m. Mush less ash is now being released into the atmosphere compared to the beginning of this eruption and scientists say they believe the volcanic activity may now be entering a different phase.'
Too mush Brennivin or a particular kind of ash?
Mickjoebill
This on the BBC live update page a few minutes ago
"1207 (GMT time) Nato fighter jets have suffered engine damage after flying through volcanic ash cloud, a senior US official has said. The official gave few details except to say that a build-up of glass was found in the jet engines."
"1209 The BBC's Lorna Gordon in Iceland says:
The top of the ash cloud reaching into the sky has lowered. It is no longer registering on weather radar and scientists estimate its maximum height is now around 3,000-4,000m. Mush less ash is now being released into the atmosphere compared to the beginning of this eruption and scientists say they believe the volcanic activity may now be entering a different phase.'
Too mush Brennivin or a particular kind of ash?
Mickjoebill
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BBC news stating that the eruption is showing signs of abatement.
On a lighter note to quote BBC R4 at the weekend 'the lib dems winning an election debate and volcanoes erupting in the north. Surely two of three signs of the apocalypse'
On a lighter note to quote BBC R4 at the weekend 'the lib dems winning an election debate and volcanoes erupting in the north. Surely two of three signs of the apocalypse'
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Unless I've missed it, I'm surprised there has been no comment here on this report .... F-16 engine damage
I can't beleive he thinks this is some sort of scientific proof that it's safe to fly anywhere in the vicinity of the ash
Volcanic ash: Willie Walsh joins British Airways test flight | Public Sector Travel
has there been any input from rolls-royce, CFM, International Aero Engines et al? surely their own in-house testing (if they have conducted any) should provide answer as to what the safe limit of dust ingestion is. This is assuming they have actually been asked...
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Mark Pilling:
Statement from CANSO - some good news at last?
WELCOME NEWS FOR GLOBAL AVIATION: EUROPEAN AIRSPACE LIKELY TO RESUME OPERATIONS TUESDAY MORNING
CANSO, the Global Voice of ATM, has welcomed the decision by European air traffic control organisations to recommend resuming flights by 8am UTC Tuesday morning (20th April) as “welcome news for airlines and passengers around the world”.
CANSO Director General Graham Lake said: “Indications are that European airspace will start to reopen on Tuesday morning, which is welcome news for airlines and passengers around the world. But we should caution that it will take several days for operations to return to normal. The precise extent to which European airspace will be opened is also still subject to individual government approval.
Air traffic control organisations across the globe are working hard to resume flights as soon as practicable and we commend them for their efforts and cooperative spirit.”
Statement from CANSO - some good news at last?
WELCOME NEWS FOR GLOBAL AVIATION: EUROPEAN AIRSPACE LIKELY TO RESUME OPERATIONS TUESDAY MORNING
CANSO, the Global Voice of ATM, has welcomed the decision by European air traffic control organisations to recommend resuming flights by 8am UTC Tuesday morning (20th April) as “welcome news for airlines and passengers around the world”.
CANSO Director General Graham Lake said: “Indications are that European airspace will start to reopen on Tuesday morning, which is welcome news for airlines and passengers around the world. But we should caution that it will take several days for operations to return to normal. The precise extent to which European airspace will be opened is also still subject to individual government approval.
Air traffic control organisations across the globe are working hard to resume flights as soon as practicable and we commend them for their efforts and cooperative spirit.”
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Ireland's RTÉ has a bit more on the NATO story:
12.05 A buildup of glass has been found in the jet engine of a NATO fighter plane in Europe, a senior US official said.
'Allied F-16s were flying and they did find glass buildup inside the engines,' the official told reporters in Brussels, clarifying that the ash had affected one aircraft.
RTÉ News: LIVE - Travel Updates
12.05 A buildup of glass has been found in the jet engine of a NATO fighter plane in Europe, a senior US official said.
'Allied F-16s were flying and they did find glass buildup inside the engines,' the official told reporters in Brussels, clarifying that the ash had affected one aircraft.
RTÉ News: LIVE - Travel Updates
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Why is the G- CALM report being hidden and kept out of the public domain
NERC Airborne Research and Survey Facility - Aircraft
HeliFirst
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Atmospheric research Aircraft (ARA)
Anyone know if the BAe146-301 Atmospheric research Aircraft (ARA) has been involved in all this??
Directflight - Atmospheric Research
Directflight - Atmospheric Research
Can this aeroplane actually reach the sort of levels that most commercial activity takes place? I'm not familiar with the peformance of this aircraft. Unless of course they're just seeing if the turboprop regionals can get flying again.
Doc C
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People
Saying that sending a BA 747 up is a publicity stunt is just daft.
The arguments against flying from all those that are allegedly in the know and all the "experts" that post here is the contamination on the engine blades. They bang on about the finnish airforce jet etc etc etc. Well precisely the reason BA, LH, AF and KLM are flying aircraft about presently is to see if there is any build up.
Rather than taking the scientists word for it, because even the scientists accept that they have no idea what concentration IS dangerous and what concentration isnt, the airlines have gone up and conducted flights. They have weighed up the risks and the worst case scenario is that one of them comes back with ash deposits all over the engine(s) and maybe they have to scrap the airframe. That is NOT a publicity stunt. That is helping the scientists validate and verify their current data.
If the Dornier that flew last week was able to detect a level of concentration and that level appears NOT to incur any ash damage on the engine, then we now have a starting point at which we can continue to validate so that in the future, we can tune that concentration level to get it as accurate as possible.
Working with the scientists on the ground, if the eruption characteristics change, we can get further air samples taken by the Dornier or any other measuring capability and compare it to the levels we have now so that airlines can be advised to shut down ops if they need to. And if this happens, the airlines can send up another series of flights to validate that concentration level.
No airline is going to put its aircraft in the air knowingly endangering the public, but they also appreciate that maybe a complete shutdown is not the answer either. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, the possibility exists that 000's of passengers are stranded unnecessarily. The airlines would also be the first to say that they have flown their aircraft and it simply is not safe to fly.
Sadly you will probably never see photos of any of the engines that have been flying about in the last 2 days but if you did, would the nay sayers now accept that maybe, it is ok to fly?
Obviously im talking about flying in clear air here....... not in the middle of the plume itself!!!!!!
Enjoy lunch
GW
Saying that sending a BA 747 up is a publicity stunt is just daft.
The arguments against flying from all those that are allegedly in the know and all the "experts" that post here is the contamination on the engine blades. They bang on about the finnish airforce jet etc etc etc. Well precisely the reason BA, LH, AF and KLM are flying aircraft about presently is to see if there is any build up.
Rather than taking the scientists word for it, because even the scientists accept that they have no idea what concentration IS dangerous and what concentration isnt, the airlines have gone up and conducted flights. They have weighed up the risks and the worst case scenario is that one of them comes back with ash deposits all over the engine(s) and maybe they have to scrap the airframe. That is NOT a publicity stunt. That is helping the scientists validate and verify their current data.
If the Dornier that flew last week was able to detect a level of concentration and that level appears NOT to incur any ash damage on the engine, then we now have a starting point at which we can continue to validate so that in the future, we can tune that concentration level to get it as accurate as possible.
Working with the scientists on the ground, if the eruption characteristics change, we can get further air samples taken by the Dornier or any other measuring capability and compare it to the levels we have now so that airlines can be advised to shut down ops if they need to. And if this happens, the airlines can send up another series of flights to validate that concentration level.
No airline is going to put its aircraft in the air knowingly endangering the public, but they also appreciate that maybe a complete shutdown is not the answer either. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, the possibility exists that 000's of passengers are stranded unnecessarily. The airlines would also be the first to say that they have flown their aircraft and it simply is not safe to fly.
Sadly you will probably never see photos of any of the engines that have been flying about in the last 2 days but if you did, would the nay sayers now accept that maybe, it is ok to fly?
Obviously im talking about flying in clear air here....... not in the middle of the plume itself!!!!!!
Enjoy lunch
GW
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Bruce absolutely, a boroscope inspection would be more detailed to a point.
But look who is doing the inspection, an entity (BA) who wants to get flying.
Its like this,
Imagine you killed someone and being a judge, you had to convict yourself, would you?
BA wants to fly, of course we all want to fly, but from I can understand of the situation, there are no IMPARTIAL inspections taking place.
The only people keeping it together, are Eurocontrol and the likes.
I just hope they don't back down for the wrong reasons.
What we need are wind changes etc and that volcano to stop belching out this material into the air.
PENKO: your comment about reduced take off etc. Big Difference, there isn't bits of glass melting in the combustion chamber and choking the engine. CAVOK? can you see ash travelling at 800 km/h.
But look who is doing the inspection, an entity (BA) who wants to get flying.
Its like this,
Imagine you killed someone and being a judge, you had to convict yourself, would you?
BA wants to fly, of course we all want to fly, but from I can understand of the situation, there are no IMPARTIAL inspections taking place.
The only people keeping it together, are Eurocontrol and the likes.
I just hope they don't back down for the wrong reasons.
What we need are wind changes etc and that volcano to stop belching out this material into the air.
PENKO: your comment about reduced take off etc. Big Difference, there isn't bits of glass melting in the combustion chamber and choking the engine. CAVOK? can you see ash travelling at 800 km/h.
Vested interest in seeing operations commence ?
Manufacturer ?
Vested interest in reducing potential liability claims ?
Government body ?
Like the one that shut down airspace purportedly on one computer model ?
Like the one that doesnt even know what NATS does or that it is not the regulatory body ?
BA, in fact any operator, has about as much interest in seeing a catastrophic even for an aircraft with it's paint on the tail as the CEO would have in putting his balls through an industrial bacon slicer.
I've bough and sold a number of commercial jet engines over the past few years. One, off wing from a 737 had 9 T1 blades melted through, but you know what, the engine still made its EGT's in limits in the test cell.
There are, and always be contaminats in the air, many of these are destructive to engines over time and as such there are TBO limits on blades, disks, hubs, bearings, shafts etc becuase of this.
Shutting down an airspace over an unknown contaminant level, not knowing where it is, or even what levels are acceptable in terms of everyday exposure is simply crass and destructive to the industry.
Is North African airspace shut down due to dust storms which regularly sump sand over the UK ? do other countries which have regular volcanic activity shut down airspace completely?
We have ASHTAM's they should be used.