Ash clouds threaten air traffic
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Melton Mowbray
what we need is a fleet of GA a/c flying out of Lydd and/or Manston ferrying pax back over the channel. Might take a while, carrying only two or three per flight but.....................we'd log a lot of hours
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
From: Wessex
Out of interest - since we've done the effect or no effect on the engines / airframe bit to death, what will the effects be on the SLF of flying for a few hours through the ash? Surely it'll make its way into the cabin via the CAU's & bleed air etc, not only being breathed in but also ingested in food & drinks.
R2
R2
Joined: Mar 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 8,023
Likes: 314
From: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
There's a risk of cabin contamination for sure. However, as I'm now up to smoking 30 a day through stress that will be the least of my worries. 
Joined: Apr 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,649
Likes: 491
From: Europe
Out of interest - since we've done the effect or no effect on the engines / airframe bit to death, what will the effects be on the SLF of flying for a few hours through the ash? Surely it'll make its way into the cabin via the CAU's & bleed air etc, not only being breathed in but also ingested in food & drink
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: england
Unofficial but
FYI The Met Office has advised DfT that the eruption stopped last night.
UK airspace will be progressively reopened tomorrow.
Scottish airspace will open at 0600
Midlands at 1200
Southern UK at 1800
Northern France and German airspace are likely to remain closed tomorrow.
NATS and CAA are preparing initial operating principles for the start up period.
FYI The Met Office has advised DfT that the eruption stopped last night.
UK airspace will be progressively reopened tomorrow.
Scottish airspace will open at 0600
Midlands at 1200
Southern UK at 1800
Northern France and German airspace are likely to remain closed tomorrow.
NATS and CAA are preparing initial operating principles for the start up period.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hi Whipper. Yeah fair comment, the RAF is under funded and stretched. But where does their funding come from. How many billions will be lost in tax collections over this period. I am sure they can risk a couple of Tornado engines. And its only that, a risk, its not certain that they would go up and wreck some engines. I have not caught up with other posts, but before someone has a go for risking a RAF pilots life......they are big boys and gals, when they signed on the knew they would be doing dangerous things. Trust me the nations finest take much bigger risks in Afganistan on a daily basis than what they would face on a jolly over Scotland.
More significantly, what do you propose they do with the Tornado? Just fly around aimlessly until things go wrong? There are no sensor pods or sample collectors that could be fitted, so nothing scientific would be gained from your disposal of critical military assets.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: UK
Beausoleil
What I should have said was "ash" of course. Silly me. I was going to mention, but didn't, soot from the Kuwait oilfields that were ignited during the gulf war, which along with blowing sand, caused huge amounts of "clag" in the area, but did not stop operations.
However, if you think we are not dealing with "grit" and "silicon" what do you suggest it is that has been deposited on my car this morning?
However, if you think we are not dealing with "grit" and "silicon" what do you suggest it is that has been deposited on my car this morning?
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Bavaria
According to Willie Walsh, everything is 100% rosy, and presumably all flights should immediately be reinstated.
When he's finished he'll be back looking for government handout.
It's really that simple.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: UK
I don't understand the confusion over this and desert flying. Sand in the desert is made of large grains of silica. They are rounded from years of abrasion and they won't have the same melt characteristics of the finer, sharper mica in the ash cloud, which being fine will melt more readily, will be deflected less by airflow direction changes (coating more of the engine interior) and being more abrasive.
These comparisons with sand storms are pointless. The differences in effects between mica and silica have been posted previously, which is where I learnt about them yesterday. I think many would benefit from reading the thread properly and learning form the scientists and engineers who have contributed.
These comparisons with sand storms are pointless. The differences in effects between mica and silica have been posted previously, which is where I learnt about them yesterday. I think many would benefit from reading the thread properly and learning form the scientists and engineers who have contributed.
Joined: Sep 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 34
From: Manchester
As the situation is reviewed every six hours ( next at 1500), I dont see how they can give a prediction of 1900 tomorrow.
I'm not sure the SLF are in a hurry to travel unless they are stranded.
I'm not sure the SLF are in a hurry to travel unless they are stranded.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
From: World
ATC services eye 20 April for re-opening airspace
European air navigation providers are recommending re-opening of airspace and the resumption of flights by 08:00UTC tomorrow.
The recommendation has been put forward during an operational teleconference involving air traffic control providers today, says air navigation services organisation CANSO.
"They have suggested there is enough information to begin resuming flights tomorrow," says a spokesman for CANSO.
CANSO states that the statement is only a recommendation, and that a final decision must be taken at government level.
Director general Graham Lake adds: "We should caution that it will take several days for operations to return to normal."
He adds that there is no clear indication as to the extent to which airspace will be re-opened.
UK air navigation service NATS states that meteorological advisories state that the Icelandic volcano Eyjafjallajoekull is "less active than previously", although UK airspace will remain shut at least until midnight on 20 April.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
The recommendation has been put forward during an operational teleconference involving air traffic control providers today, says air navigation services organisation CANSO.
"They have suggested there is enough information to begin resuming flights tomorrow," says a spokesman for CANSO.
CANSO states that the statement is only a recommendation, and that a final decision must be taken at government level.
Director general Graham Lake adds: "We should caution that it will take several days for operations to return to normal."
He adds that there is no clear indication as to the extent to which airspace will be re-opened.
UK air navigation service NATS states that meteorological advisories state that the Icelandic volcano Eyjafjallajoekull is "less active than previously", although UK airspace will remain shut at least until midnight on 20 April.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
Joined: Apr 2004
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 186
From: Dorset UK
Northern Italy airspace was open early this morning. We flew TLV to BGY.(cargo)
On decent the controller was telling some aircraft that Milan FIR was closed but we were cleared to continue and landed at 0756z.
So I think the closure was from 0800z.
No problems, but the cloud over the alps looked a bit like you see when there's an inversion over a city. ie. a bit brownish.
Now stuck here.
On decent the controller was telling some aircraft that Milan FIR was closed but we were cleared to continue and landed at 0756z.
So I think the closure was from 0800z.
No problems, but the cloud over the alps looked a bit like you see when there's an inversion over a city. ie. a bit brownish.
Now stuck here.
