Ash clouds threaten air traffic
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AEST , did they do that? Is the density variable across the sky ? Why is the G- CALM report being hidden and kept out of the public domain , one of the only ( to my knowledge ) official test flights with measuring equipment on board.
I think that deep inside, most of us know that this is a huge over-reaction. However with our modern society so scared stiff of litigation and risk of any nature, it is an entirely predictable and understandable consequence of current circumstances. Pressure will inevitably grow from airlines, tour operators and all businesses with a financial interest in aviation to get aircraft back into the air. National governments will be reluctant to succumb to that pressure putting the the problem into the same category as terrorism - ie no compromise; but, time will come when the situation changes to such an extent that someone will break ranks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serguei
Can anybody explain what exactly were the findings?
No because that information is not available to be released in the public domain.
BD
Originally Posted by Serguei
Can anybody explain what exactly were the findings?
No because that information is not available to be released in the public domain.
BD
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AEST , did they do that? Is the density variable across the sky ? Why is the G- CALM report being hidden and kept out of the public domain , one of the only ( to my knowledge ) official test flights with measuring equipment on board.
2. Of course it's variable
3. The measuring equipment on G-CALM may provide indication on concentration at some specific areas, unfortunately that's largely irrelevant
The unknown factor is What concentrations of ash starts degrading them engines?
The testflights of the airlines seem more attuned to that than the so-called scientific flight!
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The ash cloud reaches the New World.
CBC Radio reporting this morning that fears of the ash cloud reaching St. John's, Nfld, prompted AC/WJ/Porter to turn flights that arrived last night right around and hightail it back to the Mainland. No flights out this morning.
CBC News - Nfld. & Labrador - Flights scrapped as Iceland ash heads to N.L.
CBC News - Nfld. & Labrador - Flights scrapped as Iceland ash heads to N.L.
Beady Eye
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Hopefully once our 'leaders' get their act together and schedule a programme of scientific testing we might begin to learn some more facts. Unfortunately I don't see any one single body having the accountability across Europe.
BD
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Dornier 228
Important information? I'm still trying to figure out how a 170K cruise aircraft, range of 800 miles, managed to get from Scotland (?) half way to Iceland, then 100 miles East of Grimsby, and back to a midlands base in 2 hours 30.
So the policy with important information about the situation is to...hide it?
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The real scandal in this (and it is rapidly becoming one) is that despite decades of jet operations in (on a couple of nasty occasions) and around volcanic activity, there has still been no real research into what is and what is not an acceptable level of contamination.
Clearly, it is vital to know the relative constituents of a plume and, more importantly, their concentrations over the area under consideration. If it is largely grit and silcon affecting the UK, which I suspect, then there should be no impediment to re-starting operations. Operations are routinely carried out in much worse conditions world-wide in, for example, the middle east when sand storms can reduce visibilty to 600 m. -a "contaminant" concentration hundreds of time worse than prevails over Europe today.
If there are high levels of soot in the sample over the area in question then urgent research needs to be carried out by the engine manufacturers to agree a protocol with regulators and governments.
The fact is that operations continue in, for example, severe icing conditions, wind shear, torrential rain, snow covered runways and dust storms perfectly routinely because the risks have been assessed and mitigated, not removed, which is impossible. It is a disgrace that this has not been done on this occasion.
It is time for the profesionals to deal with this, not administrators or government agencies, who have neither the knowledge nor the will to make a proper, objective assessment.
Clearly, it is vital to know the relative constituents of a plume and, more importantly, their concentrations over the area under consideration. If it is largely grit and silcon affecting the UK, which I suspect, then there should be no impediment to re-starting operations. Operations are routinely carried out in much worse conditions world-wide in, for example, the middle east when sand storms can reduce visibilty to 600 m. -a "contaminant" concentration hundreds of time worse than prevails over Europe today.
If there are high levels of soot in the sample over the area in question then urgent research needs to be carried out by the engine manufacturers to agree a protocol with regulators and governments.
The fact is that operations continue in, for example, severe icing conditions, wind shear, torrential rain, snow covered runways and dust storms perfectly routinely because the risks have been assessed and mitigated, not removed, which is impossible. It is a disgrace that this has not been done on this occasion.
It is time for the profesionals to deal with this, not administrators or government agencies, who have neither the knowledge nor the will to make a proper, objective assessment.
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Well, if your life as CEO is short and brutish and if your successor gets to pick up the bill, then the answer is yes. For the aforementioned CEO, anyway.
There will be no successing CEO to pick a bill. There will be only administrators and insolvency practitioners if we don't take off now.
As a said on Saturday, no doubt we restart on Monday, and I see this is happens. My only other wish is a jail sentence for those who closed airspace without any justification. Somebody should take responsibility for this.
The best safety level is achieved when all aircraft grounded, ash or not. What most pilots missing: parked aircraft don't need pilots.
Ah yes, BDiONU, the old "You're not clever enough to understand this information, so we'll protect you from it" attitude that causes people their great trust in everything that these institutions do...
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Because it is written in scientific language which requires to be interpreted correctly. Releasing it to people who don't understand it nor the context it covers merely continues the uninformed speculation.
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This country makes me sick, this has to be the biggest over reaction and all we do is talk about things like the PFJ in the Life of Brian instead of getting on with taking action to get things underway again.
I feel sick looking at the radarvirtuel website and seeing aircraft flying over France and Germany and Eastern Europe and think why the hell are we still closing our airspace instead of working round the problem!
A very disgruntled Airline Pilot...get me flying again!!
I feel sick looking at the radarvirtuel website and seeing aircraft flying over France and Germany and Eastern Europe and think why the hell are we still closing our airspace instead of working round the problem!
A very disgruntled Airline Pilot...get me flying again!!
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There's an AFR384S waiting for about one hour at threshold at LFPG. Supposed to go to EHAM I believe, except that the Dutch authorities refuse to allow him to fly. Wrong logo perhaps? Landed AF383S said that Boroscop did'nt show anything after test flights.
Beady Eye
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A single investigation on a short trip on a single day is not sufficient to be able to base any recommendations on. A heck of a lot more needs to be done, here's hoping our great leaders start acting proactively.
BD
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Since one of the UK COBRA committee, a Mrs Harriett Harman, announced to a startled world that NATS is the regulator for aviation safety in the UK and that we must all wait upon their advice, on her way in to 10 Downing St this morning, I'm not holding put much hope for a sensible UK Government-led scientific analysis of and solution to the problem.
The line-up yesterday evening of 3 Lords outside 10 Downing St, with a woman of some sort, and another non-Lord person, none of whom had anything sensible to say while it was absolutely clear that none of them had a clue about the engineering, operational or commercial issues involved did not engender any confidence either.
Let us hope that the airlines will take the lead, conduct a sound investigation into the real danger, act accordingly when that it done, and tell NATS/CAA/COBRA/EASA/whoever to get back into their bureaucratic boxes and let them get on with operating a safe service..
The line-up yesterday evening of 3 Lords outside 10 Downing St, with a woman of some sort, and another non-Lord person, none of whom had anything sensible to say while it was absolutely clear that none of them had a clue about the engineering, operational or commercial issues involved did not engender any confidence either.
Let us hope that the airlines will take the lead, conduct a sound investigation into the real danger, act accordingly when that it done, and tell NATS/CAA/COBRA/EASA/whoever to get back into their bureaucratic boxes and let them get on with operating a safe service..
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Just been on a volcanologist site, can't see many posts about how you should fly an ILS, strange that. I know that when most of you button pushers recieve your licence it instantly turns you into a world expert on any subject, but maybe you should let the EXPERTS deal with this one for a change, hope springs eternal!
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airspace closed 2000nm from the core.....whole thing is fast becoming a circus as the boffins decide what actually defines contamination re safety of flight.
In the mean time, businesses are dying, perishable goods are rotting, passengers stranded, train, road and rail clogged, airline jobs at risk plus a raft of ancilary jobs.....unless the eu give airlines a helping hand which I doubt they will, there are operators out there that are going to sink while the what defines contamination debate rolls on. Airlines have given subtle hints like BA, LUFT that their test flights went without a hitch but have their hands tied.
In the mean time, businesses are dying, perishable goods are rotting, passengers stranded, train, road and rail clogged, airline jobs at risk plus a raft of ancilary jobs.....unless the eu give airlines a helping hand which I doubt they will, there are operators out there that are going to sink while the what defines contamination debate rolls on. Airlines have given subtle hints like BA, LUFT that their test flights went without a hitch but have their hands tied.