Ash clouds threaten air traffic

[Landroger]

Silverstrata

Did anyone boroscope the Dornier afterwards, to see if the contaminants (at this concentration) did actually stick?

That was my immediate thought when I saw the clip of them wheeling it away afterwards. If that was my aeroplane, I would have the engineers peering into its soul before it had a chance to cool.

The bloke I saw being interviewed said he was an Aeronautical Engineer and from what he had seen; 'he wouldn't want to put my aeroplanes up there at the moment.'

Having said that, he did say the layers weren't all dust. Some of them were the gas products of the eruption and, although unpleasant, would not be as destructive as the pumice dust.

Roger.

[A4]

All cars covered in fine brown dust this morning. Just north of London so it is unquestionably settling and confirms what the Do228 found yesterday - distinct "muck" in layers upto 10,000'.

Time to start getting very concerned. Prevailing winds are going to keep this coming our way till the middle of next week. The volcano webcams confirm it is still belching out a lot of smoke/soot/ash/debris - just better pray that its big brother "Katja" (?) doesn't blow its top

I suspect a lot of temporary lay-offs in many airlines if this continues for another week and as for the recovery from recession........ double dip anyone?

A4

[Genghis the Engineer]

PICTURES: Finnish F-18 engine check reveals effects of volcanic dust-16/04/2010-London-Flightglobal.com

G

[dilldog01]

How many more times people will point to FAF F18 who flew through the ash on a purpose

As per the Flight Global article the F18's were not knowingly deliberately flying through the cloud "on a purpose" however...the engine damage photographs are from one of 5 aircraft that were involved in normal air to air combat training exercises that took place BEFORE Finnish airspace had been closed that morning

[Mr A Tis]

According to BA, these flights operated last night.

BA174 (JFK) - Arrived in (GLA)

BA176 (JFK) - Arrived in (PIK)

BA184 (EWR) - Arrived in (PIK)

There ain't much politicians can do, other than help pick up the pieces afterwards.
However, if travel "windows" appear, maybe they should be advising EU citizens not to travel by air in the next month other than to return to home base. Thus allowing maximum seats available for people getting home & not increasing the potential number of strandees and also giving people the opportunity to make alternative arrangements.
At the moment some carries are only working a few hours ahead, when clearly the forecasts are not good for some time to come.

[AnthonyGA]

Accept it and make the best of it

I note many aviation authorities continually announcing closures of airports and airspace "until xxxx GMT today," followed inevitably by new announcements as the opening times must be postponed again and again.

Why not just say "closed until further notice"? Because that's the reality. And it looks stupid for authorities to announce specific times only to revise them again, and again, and again. Why the reluctance to say "we don't know"?

In fact, there seems to be a general reluctance to accept the reality. As long as there's ash in the air, you can't fly. The ash might clear tomorrow, or it might be there a year. There is absolutely nothing that can be done about it, so there's no sense stressing over it.

But there is one way to make the best of it, and I see I'm not the only one thinking about it:

Here's an idea. The companies who are losing revenue could establish a pool of engines of various designs they're willing to trash. Stick them on airframes, and fly, carrying sensitive equipment aka NASA DC8. At destination, strip down engines to determine level of deterioration. Repeat as necessary.

I don't know if the airlines or other losing parties here are willing to make this sacrifice, but it certainly would be useful if someone did, because this is a perfect opportunity to gather data on the effects of volcanic ash, which would make it far easier to determine what levels of ash (if any) are acceptable for aviation. But nobody seems to be doing much of anything. There isn't anything else to do, and there's ash right at the doorstep waiting to be measured, so why not at least try to profit from the situation. If crews are willing to volunteer for the work, at least. And they'd actually be risking airframes, not just engines.

Without some experimental flights by some brave researchers, the threshold of acceptable ash levels will always be zero. It might turn out to be zero even after research is done … or it might not.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Julian... See post #567. Outside controlled airspace you can do as you normally would.

[Bruce Wayne]

the threshold of acceptable ash levels will always be zero.

It never will be, there are perpretual volcaninc eruptions on this planet and what is emitted circulates in the moving airmass that surrounds this planet.

Some volcanic debris has been recorded as having circled the globe three times following an eruption. It will never be zero.

[Masai]

Overreaction ?

Iceland eruption and the massive disruption to global aviation: Is the shutdown really necessary? | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation - CAPA

When Eyjafjallajokull went off in 1821 it lasted for a year.

[windshear-a-head]

Looking at the met office predictions into this afternoon there is quite a significant shift allowing most of Scotland, Northern Ireland and possibly Manchester to start operating flights either between airports or westbound flights.

I hope for those stranded something comes of it, even if there is a slight chance I'm sure the airlines will jump on it to get things moving.

Met Office: Icelandic volcano eruption

[hetfield]

LH is doing some ferry VFR positioning flights MUC-FRA low level.

[Profit Max]

Apparently LH wants to check the effect the ash has on the aircraft.

[matsATC]

Latest news from CFMU:

Valid from 17/04/2010
until 17/04/2010
Released 17/04/2010 11:44

AIM
---
.
WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT MAASTRICHT UAC WILL PROVIDE A FULL ATC
SERVICE FOR FLIGHTS IN THEIR AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY.
.
FMD BRUSSELS ON BEHALF OF MAASTRICHT FMP

[INNflight]

airliner through the ashes

News reporting that an Airbus 321 optd by Ural Airlines routed Moscow - Rome diverted into Vienna this morning. ( reasons are not quite clear I'd say, press say they "ran out of fuel" )

Austrian mx is now giving said aircraft a throughout check.

[Gulfcapt]

I hope you guys get back in the air soon.

Here's a link to an article from yesterday predicting a change in the jetstream that will allow flights to resume Thursday.
AccuWeather.com - Weather News | Ash Plume Aviation Crisis May Get Relief Thursday

We were in Stockholm Thursday and awoke to the news of this. Our Ops department management decided they didn't need to wake us up. By the time we were airborne at 1312z the airspace just north was closed and the airport closed at 16z. When we called for engine start, they told us we couldn't go even though Brussels had approved the route. Took about 15 minutes of negociations to convince them we could go. We went south to Geneva before turning westbound for the states.

Wish they had woken us up. We were lucky, we should have gotten out earlier.


Best,
Jim

[OutsideCAS]

Have reliably heard that one or two business jet operators are managing to get around the problems at the moment by flying VFR outside CAS - all hunky dory with the UK CAA as well - maybe with a little liason with those in the ivory towers at Gatwick, might pave the way for a few more operators to gain some revenue ?

[justanotherflyer]

@AnthonyGA:

this is a perfect opportunity to gather data on the effects of volcanic ash, which would make it far easier to determine what levels of ash (if any) are acceptable for aviation.

Your suggestion reeks of common sense. Which may well be its downfall.

[jez d]

Have reliably heard that one or two business jet operators are managing to get around the problems at the moment by flying VFR outside CAS - all hunky dory with the UK CAA as well - maybe with a little liason with those in the ivory towers at Gatwick, might pave the way for a few more operators to gain some revenue ?

I think you'll find that the CAA aren't all that happy about these operators flying VFR outside CAS. Several phone calls have been made by the CAA this morning encouraging a cessation of these flights.

Regards, jez

[scr1]

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation...1271508253.png


the latest ash prediction

not looking any beter

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OutsideCAS... People in "ivory towers" have no real say in the matter. They are following international guidelines about Controlled Airspace, as are many other countries. What goes on outside CAS in the UK is up to the aircraft operators. However, volcanic ash clouds are not well-known for remaining inside CAS!

As for popping some old engines on an aeroplane and flying into the ash to check the results.... I think that's bordering on insanity. How about if the engines powering the "test-bed" became clogged and it crashed? So you're willing to risk life and limb for this venture?