RYANAIR FIRE PILOT UNION CHAIRMAN
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RYANAIR FIRE PILOT UNION CHAIRMAN
Today Michael O'Leary took a leaf out of Cathay's management playbook and dismissed the chairman of the Ryanair local of the Irish Airline Pilot's Association. All I can say is that I am sickened by the manner in which this has been manufactured, I am appalled by the spineless performance of his Chief Pilot and hope he gains the support of his colleagues he deserves.
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Maxfli,
since you find it necessary to air it hear, you must know more about it. If he is fired because of a clash between the union and the management, it is important to know for those thinking about joining Ryanair. So, let us hear you !
[ 14 July 2001: Message edited by: LimaNovember ]
since you find it necessary to air it hear, you must know more about it. If he is fired because of a clash between the union and the management, it is important to know for those thinking about joining Ryanair. So, let us hear you !
[ 14 July 2001: Message edited by: LimaNovember ]
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Well if this story is true, there is a rather large problem in the company. This management decision only supports the work for recognition by BALPA - WE need BALPA now....
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To answer your questions, not too sure what happened, but this is the note that has appeared in the pilots room in Dublin, make up your own mind.
The Full Text
On Thursday 5th July, Captain X disrupted and delayed departure of Flight FR 226, when he insisted that he (and his crew) would not position to STN on the jump seats that were available and would only position in the cabin thereby forcing our ramp staff to try to off load some of our checked in, fare paying passengers. Captain X was instructed by operations to position on the jump seat, he refused and was therefore off loaded from the flight.
It is entirely unacceptable for any employee of this airline (be they front line staff, cabin crew, pilots, management or even board members) to refuse to travel on a jump seat or insist that they will only travel in the cabin, thereby requiring that checked in passengers be off loaded . Our passengers will at all time take priority over All Ryanair employees regardless of whether they are travelling on duty or non duty purposes. In these circumstances we had no alternative but to terminate Captains X's contract of employment with immediate effect.
We expect and thankfully get high quality leadership, good judgement and sound common sense from all Ryanairs pilots and in particular our Captains. Capatin X's behaviour last Thursday was the antitheses of the concern for our customers that we expect from all our staff.
It is our passengers who pay our wages, and under no circumstances will we ever tolerate a situation whereby passengers are either expected to, or be off loaded, to accommodate a staff member insisting on travelling in the cabin of our aircraft instead on an available jump seat.
An internal memo on a company notice board does not imply public domain... hence I have removed the name of the Captain concerned. Please do not refer to the gentleman by name.
Sick Squid
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[ 15 July 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
The Full Text
On Thursday 5th July, Captain X disrupted and delayed departure of Flight FR 226, when he insisted that he (and his crew) would not position to STN on the jump seats that were available and would only position in the cabin thereby forcing our ramp staff to try to off load some of our checked in, fare paying passengers. Captain X was instructed by operations to position on the jump seat, he refused and was therefore off loaded from the flight.
It is entirely unacceptable for any employee of this airline (be they front line staff, cabin crew, pilots, management or even board members) to refuse to travel on a jump seat or insist that they will only travel in the cabin, thereby requiring that checked in passengers be off loaded . Our passengers will at all time take priority over All Ryanair employees regardless of whether they are travelling on duty or non duty purposes. In these circumstances we had no alternative but to terminate Captains X's contract of employment with immediate effect.
We expect and thankfully get high quality leadership, good judgement and sound common sense from all Ryanairs pilots and in particular our Captains. Capatin X's behaviour last Thursday was the antitheses of the concern for our customers that we expect from all our staff.
It is our passengers who pay our wages, and under no circumstances will we ever tolerate a situation whereby passengers are either expected to, or be off loaded, to accommodate a staff member insisting on travelling in the cabin of our aircraft instead on an available jump seat.
An internal memo on a company notice board does not imply public domain... hence I have removed the name of the Captain concerned. Please do not refer to the gentleman by name.
Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator
[ 15 July 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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Couldn't Capt X have gone on the next flight? Sound like a lack of maturity on the Managers part.
Edit as above......
[ 15 July 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
Edit as above......
[ 15 July 2001: Message edited by: Sick Squid ]
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In both the airlines I have worked for positioning staff are/were booked seats in the highest class cabin available... most sensible airlines operate this policy, and block off the seats, thus removing them from the system. If only jumpseats are available it is ok to ask the positioning crew if they would sit there, but under no circumstances do they have to.
Personally... it depends... before a long sector, there is no way I am losing the relative relaxation of the cabin, as you cannot relax on a jumpseat and the involuntary involvement in the flight adds to the duty. Afterwards.. well, almost certainly yes. But it is my choice.
Captain X has been shafted by a management who cannot see beyond an artificial bottom line... I sense a hidden agenda.
Alien
Personally... it depends... before a long sector, there is no way I am losing the relative relaxation of the cabin, as you cannot relax on a jumpseat and the involuntary involvement in the flight adds to the duty. Afterwards.. well, almost certainly yes. But it is my choice.
Captain X has been shafted by a management who cannot see beyond an artificial bottom line... I sense a hidden agenda.
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It doesn't matter what's "right" or "fair." What does the labor contract say. It spells out management AND union responsibilities. It would be hard to believe that this captain and union leader would refuse to reposition in the jumpseat unless his contract spelled out otherwise. If he did breach the contract, he's got no legs to stand on.
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Mornin' all;
Sounds like, after reading the notice above, that management at FR were perfectly correct in their decision, Fr is not a charity organisation and is not the leading low fares airline in Europe (maybe elsewhere) for nothing. On a flight segment of approx 40 mins flying time..why could the Capt not sit in the jump seat..was it below his levl of dignity or was he hoping to lounge around in the "business class" section up front in a FR B737..?, C'mon guys, I have heard of flight crew with illusions of grandeur but surely the Capt this time, was over the top
***Of course, all my comments are based on what I have read above and maybe there is another side to the story***
Sounds like, after reading the notice above, that management at FR were perfectly correct in their decision, Fr is not a charity organisation and is not the leading low fares airline in Europe (maybe elsewhere) for nothing. On a flight segment of approx 40 mins flying time..why could the Capt not sit in the jump seat..was it below his levl of dignity or was he hoping to lounge around in the "business class" section up front in a FR B737..?, C'mon guys, I have heard of flight crew with illusions of grandeur but surely the Capt this time, was over the top
***Of course, all my comments are based on what I have read above and maybe there is another side to the story***
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This situation is a complete disgrace. I cannot believe the arrogrance of FR management given their "we're all team members" attitude. I hope everyone else there kicks up a huge fuss over this....
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Pilots cannot be expected to jumpseat prior to duty or after duty for that matter,however short the sector.After any incident/accident,the first thing that any investigator will ask is:"Were the flightcrew properly licenced and rested to conduct this flight?"THe notion of pilot fatigue and its proven effect in previous airliner crashes has made all conscientious regulatory authorities take a zero tolerance attitude towards any infringement of these regulations.If an unscrupulous airline plays fast and lose with these regulations,not only is it compromising the position of its flightcrew,but it is openly inviting accusations of gross misconduct.
I appreciate that the off-loading of passengers to make way for crew is a highly embarassing option for an airline but compromising safety is somewhat more than an embarassment.Knowing that they had positioning crew on the flight,who was the bright spark that sold the seats?Was it an oversight(reflects badly on Ryanair's organization)or were they sold to make an extra buck(misguided greed).Either one is inexcusable,but the former is at least forgiveable.
Preparation for a flight is important to any pilot.That hour or two prior to operating is crucial.Accident investigators know this.
I appreciate that the off-loading of passengers to make way for crew is a highly embarassing option for an airline but compromising safety is somewhat more than an embarassment.Knowing that they had positioning crew on the flight,who was the bright spark that sold the seats?Was it an oversight(reflects badly on Ryanair's organization)or were they sold to make an extra buck(misguided greed).Either one is inexcusable,but the former is at least forgiveable.
Preparation for a flight is important to any pilot.That hour or two prior to operating is crucial.Accident investigators know this.
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Certainly in the USA, if you jumpseat while on duty, then that counts as regualrr flight time, and it has caused problems in the past.
FWIW at my company (UAL) deadheading issues form a significant part of the contract. Basically if there are absolutely no seats available then a gate agent could ASK a crew member to jumpseat, but the crew desk has to be consulted first, for the flight time limitations listed above.
As others have said, there is more to this than appears.
Can someone quote the RyanAir contract here?
FWIW at my company (UAL) deadheading issues form a significant part of the contract. Basically if there are absolutely no seats available then a gate agent could ASK a crew member to jumpseat, but the crew desk has to be consulted first, for the flight time limitations listed above.
As others have said, there is more to this than appears.
Can someone quote the RyanAir contract here?
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Whoa, steady on.
Captain X did NOT refuse a jumpseat. The facts are: He plus co-pilot plus 3 CCMs showed up at the gate to py to STN. There was one seat in the cabin and 3 jumpseats. Ergo, 5 into 4 does not go. Not unreasonably he pointed this out and asked OPS to solve the problem. A standby pax was unloaded and ALL FIVE crew boarded and took their seats and were ready to position to STN. Then the operating capt was radioed to offload the positioniong capt/co-pilot. This they did and returned to OPS. They were summoned DIRECTLY to Michael O'Leary and roundly abused with a string of expletives too crude to use here!!! After a farcical "investigation" which denied him sight of the "evidence statements" against him, Capt X was sacked. Just like that.
Did somebody say Contract/Terms and conditions. Ha, ha, ha. This is Ryanair. The rules are made up as we go along. Object, and your fired.
I am disturbed that this is being debated as if the issue is the rights and wrongs of crew positioning in jumpseats. I repeat: THERE WAS NO REFUSAL TO JUMPSEAT. THERE WERE 4 SEATS (INCLUDING JUMPSEATS) FOR 5 CREW. WHEN AN EXTRA SEAT WAS MADE AVAILABLE ALL CREW BOARDED. RYANAIR OPS ORDERED THE FLIGHT CREW TO OFFLOAD.
THIS IS A BLATANT ATTACK ON THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DUBLIN PILOT GROUP. DON'T BELIEVE THE RYANAIR PROPAGANDA.
Captain X did NOT refuse a jumpseat. The facts are: He plus co-pilot plus 3 CCMs showed up at the gate to py to STN. There was one seat in the cabin and 3 jumpseats. Ergo, 5 into 4 does not go. Not unreasonably he pointed this out and asked OPS to solve the problem. A standby pax was unloaded and ALL FIVE crew boarded and took their seats and were ready to position to STN. Then the operating capt was radioed to offload the positioniong capt/co-pilot. This they did and returned to OPS. They were summoned DIRECTLY to Michael O'Leary and roundly abused with a string of expletives too crude to use here!!! After a farcical "investigation" which denied him sight of the "evidence statements" against him, Capt X was sacked. Just like that.
Did somebody say Contract/Terms and conditions. Ha, ha, ha. This is Ryanair. The rules are made up as we go along. Object, and your fired.
I am disturbed that this is being debated as if the issue is the rights and wrongs of crew positioning in jumpseats. I repeat: THERE WAS NO REFUSAL TO JUMPSEAT. THERE WERE 4 SEATS (INCLUDING JUMPSEATS) FOR 5 CREW. WHEN AN EXTRA SEAT WAS MADE AVAILABLE ALL CREW BOARDED. RYANAIR OPS ORDERED THE FLIGHT CREW TO OFFLOAD.
THIS IS A BLATANT ATTACK ON THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DUBLIN PILOT GROUP. DON'T BELIEVE THE RYANAIR PROPAGANDA.