RYANAIR FIRE PILOT UNION CHAIRMAN
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I believe there was a meeting with the Unions both in DUB and STN a few days ago. Anybody want to fill the rest of us people in as to what the outcome was, or what the general feeling was? 
Sensible PPRuNer?
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It's amazing how different Ryanair and Aer Fungus are. In one airline one manager decides to destroy two employees.
In the other, two employees conspire to destroy one manager!
In the other, two employees conspire to destroy one manager!
Gullible.
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Apologies for my late reply, but here goes anyway (putting on flackjacket and metal helmet getting into the trench)...
Allow me to be honest...I am a fan of Ryanair and MOL, I am not a member of Staff or have any connecions whatsoever with FR. However, I do recognise the contribution that the company have made to air travel out of Ireland. There is no doubt, and surely no one can disagree with me, that without FR we would all be paying huge money to get off this Island.
As far as the two recent dismissals are concerned...I consider myself an even minded person and cannot understand a Captain wanting a revenue pax taken off a flight in order that he can travel approx 40 minutes to his destination in comfort. Maybe someone can explain to me a good reason for the Capt. adopting the position that he did. With regard to the second incident..how is a Capt to have proper charge of his aircraft if the person in the right hand seat refuses to obey a direction, that neither involved danger or compromised safety..?
Apologies for my late reply, but here goes anyway (putting on flackjacket and metal helmet getting into the trench)...
Allow me to be honest...I am a fan of Ryanair and MOL, I am not a member of Staff or have any connecions whatsoever with FR. However, I do recognise the contribution that the company have made to air travel out of Ireland. There is no doubt, and surely no one can disagree with me, that without FR we would all be paying huge money to get off this Island.
As far as the two recent dismissals are concerned...I consider myself an even minded person and cannot understand a Captain wanting a revenue pax taken off a flight in order that he can travel approx 40 minutes to his destination in comfort. Maybe someone can explain to me a good reason for the Capt. adopting the position that he did. With regard to the second incident..how is a Capt to have proper charge of his aircraft if the person in the right hand seat refuses to obey a direction, that neither involved danger or compromised safety..?
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Flame, in the absence of the full facts in the cases you refer to, I think anyones attempts at explaining them would be purely speculative.
And that fact simply reinforces my point; that there is more to this than the flippant remark thrown out by the contributor above (tonyryan).
And that fact simply reinforces my point; that there is more to this than the flippant remark thrown out by the contributor above (tonyryan).
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Flame,
Here we go again, old chap. I believe I have already addressed Capt. Duffy's dismassal in an earlier post. If you're too lazy to read it, then I'm not going to retype it so let me qoute:
As regards the second dismissal, again if the facts were as you state then FR might have a case. However, my info (not from the lady herself but from mutual colleagues) is that the Capt concerned breached FR SOP in an irregular an dangerous manner and contrary to all principles of good CRM. Her PROFESSIONAL judgement was that she should not continue to fly with him. This is a subjective decision on the day and she cannot be objectively faulted for it. Any pilot has a RESPONSIBILITY to do as she did.
As regards your admiration for MOL lets agree to differ. Just let me ask: "have you ever met the man?" The private face is quite unlike the pleasant public persona. Breaking the BA/EI monopoly, while worthwhile, does not qualify one for sainthood. After all, didn't Hitler make the trains run on time??????????
Here we go again, old chap. I believe I have already addressed Capt. Duffy's dismassal in an earlier post. If you're too lazy to read it, then I'm not going to retype it so let me qoute:
Whoa, steady on.
Captain X did NOT refuse a jumpseat. The facts are: He plus co-pilot plus 3 CCMs showed up at the gate to py to STN. There was one seat in the cabin and 3 jumpseats. Ergo, 5 into 4 does not go. Not unreasonably he pointed this out and asked OPS to solve the problem. A standby pax was unloaded and ALL FIVE crew boarded and took their seats and were ready to position to STN. Then the operating capt was radioed to offload the positioniong capt/co-pilot. This they did and returned to OPS. They were summoned DIRECTLY to Michael O'Leary and roundly abused with a string of expletives too crude to use here!!! After a farcical "investigation" which denied him sight of the "evidence statements" against him, Capt X was sacked. Just like that.
.......
I am disturbed that this is being debated as if the issue is the rights and wrongs of crew positioning in jumpseats. I repeat: THERE WAS NO REFUSAL TO JUMPSEAT. THERE WERE 4 SEATS (INCLUDING JUMPSEATS) FOR 5 CREW. WHEN AN EXTRA SEAT WAS MADE AVAILABLE ALL CREW BOARDED. RYANAIR OPS ORDERED THE FLIGHT CREW TO OFFLOAD.
THIS IS A BLATANT ATTACK ON THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DUBLIN PILOT GROUP. DON'T BELIEVE THE RYANAIR PROPAGANDA.
Captain X did NOT refuse a jumpseat. The facts are: He plus co-pilot plus 3 CCMs showed up at the gate to py to STN. There was one seat in the cabin and 3 jumpseats. Ergo, 5 into 4 does not go. Not unreasonably he pointed this out and asked OPS to solve the problem. A standby pax was unloaded and ALL FIVE crew boarded and took their seats and were ready to position to STN. Then the operating capt was radioed to offload the positioniong capt/co-pilot. This they did and returned to OPS. They were summoned DIRECTLY to Michael O'Leary and roundly abused with a string of expletives too crude to use here!!! After a farcical "investigation" which denied him sight of the "evidence statements" against him, Capt X was sacked. Just like that.
.......
I am disturbed that this is being debated as if the issue is the rights and wrongs of crew positioning in jumpseats. I repeat: THERE WAS NO REFUSAL TO JUMPSEAT. THERE WERE 4 SEATS (INCLUDING JUMPSEATS) FOR 5 CREW. WHEN AN EXTRA SEAT WAS MADE AVAILABLE ALL CREW BOARDED. RYANAIR OPS ORDERED THE FLIGHT CREW TO OFFLOAD.
THIS IS A BLATANT ATTACK ON THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DUBLIN PILOT GROUP. DON'T BELIEVE THE RYANAIR PROPAGANDA.
As regards the second dismissal, again if the facts were as you state then FR might have a case. However, my info (not from the lady herself but from mutual colleagues) is that the Capt concerned breached FR SOP in an irregular an dangerous manner and contrary to all principles of good CRM. Her PROFESSIONAL judgement was that she should not continue to fly with him. This is a subjective decision on the day and she cannot be objectively faulted for it. Any pilot has a RESPONSIBILITY to do as she did.
As regards your admiration for MOL lets agree to differ. Just let me ask: "have you ever met the man?" The private face is quite unlike the pleasant public persona. Breaking the BA/EI monopoly, while worthwhile, does not qualify one for sainthood. After all, didn't Hitler make the trains run on time??????????
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Capt Senseless,
Do you not for a moment believe that Foleys departure from your beloved company was not orchestrated over trade union recognition issues?
Equally do you ot at least suspect that MD's dismissal from FR was in some way to do with trade union recognition?
Perhaps my cynicism was lost on you.
Do you not for a moment believe that Foleys departure from your beloved company was not orchestrated over trade union recognition issues?
Equally do you ot at least suspect that MD's dismissal from FR was in some way to do with trade union recognition?
Perhaps my cynicism was lost on you.
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What's that Hogg???????
I can't possibly understand why you would ever be interested in this subject
Gotham City now eh. My you are quite a little movie buff aren't you
Whats SOP mean for the less well informed. In the second case was it the captain's flying skills that were called into question or his social skills (if you get my drift)? In other words what exactly bloody happened???
Emerald
I can't possibly understand why you would ever be interested in this subject
Gotham City now eh. My you are quite a little movie buff aren't you
Whats SOP mean for the less well informed. In the second case was it the captain's flying skills that were called into question or his social skills (if you get my drift)? In other words what exactly bloody happened???
Emerald
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tonyryan you seem to have got my point then...do I have to spell it out again? By the way, I think the word you mean to use was 'sarcasm'.
bearcat the title of this thread is: Ryanair fire pilot union chairman. I'm not sure how you now make the jump onto ALT. Trying to distract us perhaps?
Stick to the subject.
bearcat the title of this thread is: Ryanair fire pilot union chairman. I'm not sure how you now make the jump onto ALT. Trying to distract us perhaps?
Stick to the subject.
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Staandbyyourman
Nearly right. MD did not refuse the jumpseat. He said 5 into 4 wont go and expressed his preference for a seat in the cabin. After all two of them would have to have cabin seats and MD wanted one of them. Hardly unreasonable. IALPA source says that MD was clearly sacked because he had got up MOLs nose as IALPA rep. That's an attack on all FR pilots so stand by your man.
Same source says CD did not refuse to fly with the old lecher from Lu**on. She was PF. He disconnected the autopilot twice in the middle of an IMC approach. Fantastic CRM what? In IMC she wanted to use a/pilot. On the ground after that sector I heard he tore strips off her for her attitude!! ie she wished to follow normal SOPs he upset her so much that she had to get off the return flight. Isn't that what a professional pilot is supposed to do if unable to operate FOR ANY REASON? Then she was sacked for that!! Would JO and MOL have sacked her if she'd stayed on board? Doubtful. Her real crime in MOLs eyes was leaving the flight. What a cowboy outfit. They should replace the harp with Mickey Mouse. Support the "DUBLIN TWO"
Nearly right. MD did not refuse the jumpseat. He said 5 into 4 wont go and expressed his preference for a seat in the cabin. After all two of them would have to have cabin seats and MD wanted one of them. Hardly unreasonable. IALPA source says that MD was clearly sacked because he had got up MOLs nose as IALPA rep. That's an attack on all FR pilots so stand by your man.
Same source says CD did not refuse to fly with the old lecher from Lu**on. She was PF. He disconnected the autopilot twice in the middle of an IMC approach. Fantastic CRM what? In IMC she wanted to use a/pilot. On the ground after that sector I heard he tore strips off her for her attitude!! ie she wished to follow normal SOPs he upset her so much that she had to get off the return flight. Isn't that what a professional pilot is supposed to do if unable to operate FOR ANY REASON? Then she was sacked for that!! Would JO and MOL have sacked her if she'd stayed on board? Doubtful. Her real crime in MOLs eyes was leaving the flight. What a cowboy outfit. They should replace the harp with Mickey Mouse. Support the "DUBLIN TWO"
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Sad news for Irish Aviation. Bust of luck for the two pilots.
However I find it interesting that two topics have been posted in the same number of days, regarding massive investment and expansion to the ryanair network.
This could not be propaganda designed to take the public and business world away from what appears to be a brewing labour dispute.
However I find it interesting that two topics have been posted in the same number of days, regarding massive investment and expansion to the ryanair network.
This could not be propaganda designed to take the public and business world away from what appears to be a brewing labour dispute.
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Hey Guys;
I guess I was correct in saying that I was putting on my flak jacket and getting into the trenches.
As for some of the replies to my questions. Is there a need for some people to be so rude and insulting to me, for making my opinions known to all and sundry.
And, as for the 2 points raised, not one person has answered either of my points
I guess I was correct in saying that I was putting on my flak jacket and getting into the trenches.
As for some of the replies to my questions. Is there a need for some people to be so rude and insulting to me, for making my opinions known to all and sundry.
And, as for the 2 points raised, not one person has answered either of my points