Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Incident at Airport Dortmund (Germany)

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Incident at Airport Dortmund (Germany)

Old 3rd Jan 2010, 09:50
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: near EDDF
Posts: 775
Incident at Airport Dortmund (Germany)

Airport Dortmund (Germany) is temporary closed.
A B737-800 operated by Air Berlin (AB 2450) overrun the Runway.
All Passengers (165) unharmed according Dortmund Airport Homepage (in german):
Startseite - Dortmund Airport

Pictures (source http://www.blaulichtreporter.de/):


IFixPlanes is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 09:52
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: europe
Posts: 3
Air Berlin Flight 2450 overshoot runway EDLW after T/O abort

This morning 07.05 LT Flight AB 2450 aboarded T/O and came to a rest on a field behind the runway. According to the airport nobody was injured. 165 Pax on board.

TORA: 2000m

Actual METAR / TAF:
METAR: EDLW 030750Z 02010KT 2000 -SN OVC005 M05/M05 Q1018
short-TAF: EDLW 030530Z 0306/0315 02008KT 1000 SN OVC003 BECMG 0307/0310 3500 -SN BR BKN007 TEMPO 0310/0315 BKN012

www.blaulichtreporter.de
Startseite - Dortmund Airport
Vrqs is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 10:43
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Edlw 030550z 02008kt 1000 R06/1800d Sn Ovc003 M04/m04 Q1016 06snoclo=edlw 030520z 03008kt 1000 R06/1900n Sn Ovc003 M03/m03 Q1016 06snoclo=
Edlw 030450z Vrb02kt 1000 R24/p2000d Sn Sct001 Ovc002 M01/m01 Q1016 24snoclo=
Edlw 030420z Vrb01kt 1200 R24/p2000n -sn Br Bkn002 Bkn007 M01/m01 Q1015=

General news
03.01.2010 Air traffic at Dortmund Airport abandoned
At 7 o’clock this morning, an aircraft by airberlin (flight AB 2450, to Las Palmas/Gran Canaria) went off the runway during takeoff.

All 165 passengers are unharmed and will continue their journey from a neighboring airport.

The recovery of the aircraft is in progress. Until close of works the air traffic at Dortmund Airport is abandoned.

Incoming and outgoing flights must be deleted or redirected to other airports.
eagle21 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 10:43
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 142
EDLW has a history of overruns both TO and LDG. Runway is relatively short and stop margins with Airbus A320 with Conf 3 in the 30 to 60 meter region with WET RWY with medium weights and engine anti-ice on. TOGA thrust provides much better margins but it is still a short runway and many companies operating in and out have put restrictions as to who can be the pilot flying. Both RWY's 24 and 06 also have a displaced threshold.
747JJ is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 11:08
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: AMS
Posts: 13
EDLW has a history of overruns both TO and LDG. Runway is relatively short and stop margins with Airbus A320 with Conf 3 in the 30 to 60 meter region with WET RWY with medium weights and engine anti-ice on.

- except it was not an A320 but a 737.

Looking at the picture it seems to be a -800 with a collapsed nosegear, but not nearly as bad as the AA 737-800 of last week!

She'll be back flying...

KLM-MD11

Edited for a typo - I'm not a native English speaker, you see...
klm-md11 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 11:09
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 56
Anyone seen a runway state message or snowtam yet?

I have a feeling we're gonna see this one in some CRM recurrent course in a few years..
76-er is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 11:12
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 142
I was aware of it being a 737. Same laws of aeromystics apply to a Boeing as it does to the Airbus. Since I have not been flying a 737 for over 10 years and certainly not to DTM but have on the Airbus, hence the example.

I would think that AB320 and B737 have very similar RWY performance out of DTM. Certainly they have same problems with friction coefficient and runway state and face same problems with weather even possibly with similar results.
747JJ is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 11:15
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 549
Why not passenger evacuation? I can see some steps attached to the 2R door. In most airlines an abnormal attitude such as this would generate an evacuation started by any cabin crew member without the need to wait for instructions from the flight deck.
eagle21 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 12:23
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 72
A short report on N-TV: Flughafen Dortmund gesperrt: Air-Berlin-Jet rutscht ab - n-tv.de (in German)

The report says 165 passengers on board, nobody hurt.
Pax left the airplane by stairs.

Originally Posted by Air Berlin
Air Berlin sieht keine Fehler bei ihrem Piloten. "[Er] hat korrekt gehandelt", sagte Sprecherin Diane Daedelow. Er habe den Start wegen zweier unterschiedlicher Geschwindigkeitsanzeigen im Cockpit abbrechen müssen. Anscheinend sei einer der Tempomesser der Boeing 737-800 nicht in Ordnung gewesen. Air Berlin prüft nun, ob Versäumnisse des Flughafenbetreibers vorliegen. "Es ist die Frage, ob der Ausrollweg vollständig enteist wurde", sagte Daedelow.
Translation:
Air Berlin does not see pilot error. He did correct, said Air Berlin speaker Diane Daedelow. He had to abort the takeoff due to two different speed indications. Apparently one of the speed indicators was wrong. Air Berlin is now checking for failure of the Airport Operator. It is questionable if the stopway was completely deiced, said Daedelow.
TheWanderer is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 12:26
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Belgium
Posts: 81
Direct link:

Galerie Doro WIEBOLD TVnews GmbH - WIEBOLDTV AKTUELL

Apparently rejected take-off / All pax and crew safe
gb777 is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 13:08
  #11 (permalink)  
txl
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Berlin
Age: 52
Posts: 83
Some bits to speculate about

Here's some more information gathered from press reports: AB2450 (a 737-800) was scheduled to take off from Dortmund for Las Palmas at 7:05 this morning. 165 pax and 6 crew on board (as well as a dog in cargo, as one report says).

Citing airport officials, reports say that the pilot aborted take-off due to "technical irregularities". Aircraft "skidded" off the runway and came to stop nose-down on an adjacent field. According to one report, the aircraft, while trying to brake, veered off the side of the icy safety area.

All pax and crew (as well as the dog) are unharmed and left the aircraft via stairs.

Reports cite an Air Berlin spokeswoman saying that the pilot had to abort take-off because of two differing speed readings from cockpit instruments. There seems to have been a problem with the aircraft's speed indicators.

According to an news agency report, the airline asked whether the safety area had been properly de-iced.

Aircraft not damaged, says the airline. Dortmund airport closed until aircraft is recovered. Pax continue journey via Paderborn.
txl is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 13:24
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 124
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7306/008ijo.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1862/015rwo.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5425/026qy.jpg
HermanTheGerman is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 14:03
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In my seat
Posts: 822
If they overran the runway, they must have been doing more than 80kts. Why then stop for an airspeed indication problem? You have to be go-minded, the aircraft almost always feels better in the air, except for engine and flight-control problems obviously.
Rarely acidents happen because the crew elected to continue. Mishaps because of a rejected take-off are frequent however.
despegue is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 14:29
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
How can you accurately judge V1 (go,no-go) with an airspeed disagreement?

The aircraft looks good, no landing gear collapse.
Flight Safety is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 14:52
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 72
How can you accurately judge V1 (go,no-go) with an airspeed disagreement?
As long as you are on ground, you might have a look at the groundspeed indication that comes from the IRS.
That schould give a rough estimate, with the reported wind of 020/10kt close enough.

Last edited by TheWanderer; 3rd Jan 2010 at 15:06.
TheWanderer is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 15:01
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
Posts: 5,058
... and there are three pitot tubes feeding three separate ASIs (the standby ASI uses the auxiliary pitot tube and alternate static port). You can have a democratic 2 to 1 vote.

"IAS DISAGREE" alert should have been visible on the Speed tape with > 5 knot for 5 seconds Captain / FO difference above 45 knots, although that would be easy to miss, and 5 seconds is quite-a-ways down the strip.
Checkboard is online now  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 15:06
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels
Age: 39
Posts: 18
TheWanderer:

this answer seems silly to me... we can not "roughly estimate" a go/nogo decision, as we can not roughly estimate how close we are to V1.
During the take off roll, things happen very fast. Looking at the groudspeed given by IRS is not practicable, especially at high speed.
quianor is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 15:13
  #18 (permalink)  
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,715
Why then stop for an airspeed indication problem? You have to be go-minded, the aircraft almost always feels better in the air, except for engine and flight-control problems obviously.
The Birgenair and Aero Peru 757 accidents may slew your statistical analysis of what exactly "feels better in the air" means.
Two's in is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 15:16
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 459
How can you accurately judge V1 (go,no-go) with an airspeed disagreement?
Accurately... instantly? -- a pretty tall order.

So if all engines are running, wouldn't it be wiser to continue from a short-ish runway?
Zeffy is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2010, 15:29
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Near VTUU or EGPX
Age: 61
Posts: 306
If your pitot-static and air data computer systems are not functioning properly, as an ex-ppl, frequent passenger and current air traffic controller I would much rather the aircraft stayed on terra firma.

Looks like a similar situation as the recent Ryanair excursion at EGPK, lack of grip on the paved surfaces when most needed.

Glad that everybody walked away, may have been a completely different scenario if it had gotten airborne.
The Fat Controller is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.