BA short of pilots...what a surprise!
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Possibly.....a pro-pilot posting out of you? Could it happen? Naaahhh!
Quite what entertainment you get between you two- Guvnerd and 411A (if indeed you are two- the similarities have struck me lately), in coming to this- a professional pilots forum, and wigging the professional pilots therein, amazes me. There are many people who like to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and tease galore, and you two are cases in point. I get fed up with discussions being taken over by you two above all while you expound your anti-pilot comments, so forgive me if I don't try and enter into a serious discussion with either of you- your true 'tease' feelings will surface, and quite honestly, neither of you has any sense or intelligence to commit here!
Quite what entertainment you get between you two- Guvnerd and 411A (if indeed you are two- the similarities have struck me lately), in coming to this- a professional pilots forum, and wigging the professional pilots therein, amazes me. There are many people who like to hide behind the anonymity of the internet and tease galore, and you two are cases in point. I get fed up with discussions being taken over by you two above all while you expound your anti-pilot comments, so forgive me if I don't try and enter into a serious discussion with either of you- your true 'tease' feelings will surface, and quite honestly, neither of you has any sense or intelligence to commit here!
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Hmmm, yet another notso relevant post from Notso Fantastic where he comes out with his notso clever attacks on those that know something about operating economics (which at the end of the day means the difference between life and death for an airline, as for any other company).
I hear that his notso interesting posts are a source of constant irritation to his colleagues at Big Airways - most of whom apparently would be notso upset if he left that august company!
Notso Fantastic, dear boy, please do us all a favour will you and stop constantly hijacking threads with your attacks? It wastes Danny's expensive bandwith and contributes nothing - except demonstrating that it is possible to fool the psychometric tests.
Pirate - that's what happens when you drop the FE! Go back to three crew aircraft and you'll save a fortune.
I hear that his notso interesting posts are a source of constant irritation to his colleagues at Big Airways - most of whom apparently would be notso upset if he left that august company!
Notso Fantastic, dear boy, please do us all a favour will you and stop constantly hijacking threads with your attacks? It wastes Danny's expensive bandwith and contributes nothing - except demonstrating that it is possible to fool the psychometric tests.
Pirate - that's what happens when you drop the FE! Go back to three crew aircraft and you'll save a fortune.
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I, for one, would be very surprised if the CAA decided that bunk hours didn't contribute to total hours. The aviation medical profession have already gone public and said it is not the hours of work so much as the time zone changes that put the body clock out of 'sync' and that is a major contributor towards fatigue.
I think it may have been NASA that said that every time zone crossed, over three hours different from departure, should equate to one day off at destination!!!
Hardly likely to happen either but I would expect BALPA to bring all their big medical guns to bear if any airline management tried this stunt, (discounting bunk hours).
IMHO 900 hours a year on the B744 is not excessive, been there, done that etc. but 900 is about the upper limit I would say.
[ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: G.Khan ]
I think it may have been NASA that said that every time zone crossed, over three hours different from departure, should equate to one day off at destination!!!
Hardly likely to happen either but I would expect BALPA to bring all their big medical guns to bear if any airline management tried this stunt, (discounting bunk hours).
IMHO 900 hours a year on the B744 is not excessive, been there, done that etc. but 900 is about the upper limit I would say.
[ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: G.Khan ]
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I know this is getting away from the initial thread even more, but what I find illogical is the payment of the so-called "flying rate" whilst at kip in the bunk.....
I'll just nip outside now and pop my flak jacket on.....it's in the shed. Still got it from a previous life.
I'll just nip outside now and pop my flak jacket on.....it's in the shed. Still got it from a previous life.
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The FHR is paid whilst crew are in the bunk because:
1)They're still working and still retain responsibility for the aircraft.
2)Thats the industrial agreement BALPA and BA reached together. Nobody forced BA to pay it, and if you want to rewrite agreements just becuase you don't like them, then why not stop paying salary to anyone on a slip because they're not flying that day?
1)They're still working and still retain responsibility for the aircraft.
2)Thats the industrial agreement BALPA and BA reached together. Nobody forced BA to pay it, and if you want to rewrite agreements just becuase you don't like them, then why not stop paying salary to anyone on a slip because they're not flying that day?
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Paid while in the bunk...well yes I suppose...why not paid while in the bar at destination, or elsewhere...
Hours are hours....why not pay at home as well?
Get real, the guys at BA (and others) will just HAVE to work a little harder after September...too bad for them, my heart bleeds.
Hours are hours....why not pay at home as well?
Get real, the guys at BA (and others) will just HAVE to work a little harder after September...too bad for them, my heart bleeds.
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411A
Typical attitude coming from a guy who resides in the same country that sets the standard for high pilot pay for very few hours flown.
BTW, paid while in the bar at destination? Damn right!! Just like any other business professional with an expense account. Travelling does happen to be part of the job!
Typical attitude coming from a guy who resides in the same country that sets the standard for high pilot pay for very few hours flown.
BTW, paid while in the bar at destination? Damn right!! Just like any other business professional with an expense account. Travelling does happen to be part of the job!
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411A,
Sorry mate but you seem to be speculating on work rates and scheduling matters without all (any of?) the facts.
I work in BA shorthaul but know a little more than you seem to about BA longhaul. After working for 15 years as a pilot I have never worked so hard in such a sustained manner as I have in BA. I have only been with BA for the last few years and I have seen two other operations before I got here so feel qualified to draw comparisons. BA gets its pound of flesh from its pilots.
So whats your gripe? What does it matter to you if people express concern over their eroding T&Cs? I don't know where you work or what you do but unless you can come up with some startling insight into your own work 'ethic' don't criticise others.
Sorry mate but you seem to be speculating on work rates and scheduling matters without all (any of?) the facts.
I work in BA shorthaul but know a little more than you seem to about BA longhaul. After working for 15 years as a pilot I have never worked so hard in such a sustained manner as I have in BA. I have only been with BA for the last few years and I have seen two other operations before I got here so feel qualified to draw comparisons. BA gets its pound of flesh from its pilots.
So whats your gripe? What does it matter to you if people express concern over their eroding T&Cs? I don't know where you work or what you do but unless you can come up with some startling insight into your own work 'ethic' don't criticise others.
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Guvnor,
Don't know where you get your information regarding NotSo's posts. I'm a BA colleague and don't get irritated by his messages and haven't seen any negative vibes on the BA forum, maybe you should stop clutching at straws and stick to doing what you do best; posting the useful aviation news without attaced comments.
411,
Mate, you just haven't got a clue what you're talking about. As someone who has flown Stateside (and no, I'm not talking Cessnas or just night-stops)and now for BA I can tell you that our pay and conditions are far inferior to those of your countymen. The fact that you're scrambling around looking for jobs in the desert just tells me you couldn't make the grade at home. Give us all a break and keep your inane comments to yourself until you can back them up with any evidence.
And.....
Recover
Don't know where you get your information regarding NotSo's posts. I'm a BA colleague and don't get irritated by his messages and haven't seen any negative vibes on the BA forum, maybe you should stop clutching at straws and stick to doing what you do best; posting the useful aviation news without attaced comments.
411,
Mate, you just haven't got a clue what you're talking about. As someone who has flown Stateside (and no, I'm not talking Cessnas or just night-stops)and now for BA I can tell you that our pay and conditions are far inferior to those of your countymen. The fact that you're scrambling around looking for jobs in the desert just tells me you couldn't make the grade at home. Give us all a break and keep your inane comments to yourself until you can back them up with any evidence.
And.....
Recover
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Stickshake,
I couldn't agree with you more!
It has been demonstrated by international audits that work/pay ratio at BA is quite high, which means working conditions are not as good as people think they are.
As I have said before, I know of several companies in europe requiring less and paying more, so they have a very low work/pay ratio which is better for us pilots.
However, I must admit that many of those companies are situated in South Europe (France for instance) and you must speak French fluently to join them. Not so much of a problem to me (native speaker) as it is to many other people, so I suppose that's the main reason they are less demanding...
Hey, I think it could very well pay off to learn some french... BTW, life at the côte d'azur is much better and relaxer then in Manchester for instance, so what are you waiting for?
I couldn't agree with you more!
It has been demonstrated by international audits that work/pay ratio at BA is quite high, which means working conditions are not as good as people think they are.
As I have said before, I know of several companies in europe requiring less and paying more, so they have a very low work/pay ratio which is better for us pilots.
However, I must admit that many of those companies are situated in South Europe (France for instance) and you must speak French fluently to join them. Not so much of a problem to me (native speaker) as it is to many other people, so I suppose that's the main reason they are less demanding...
Hey, I think it could very well pay off to learn some french... BTW, life at the côte d'azur is much better and relaxer then in Manchester for instance, so what are you waiting for?
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Hot Wings,
I've been known to dabble a little in the pilot recruitment and, so far, have not heard a thing about re-starting in Feb. Now given BA management, that is not unusual but I suppose the Feb bid pack will reveal a lot more. I'll have a sniff around and see if I can come up with any fuel to add to the fire.
Recover,
Have to agree with your comments regarding Not So. I'm not in the least annoyed by his contributions.
Chocolates aweigh,
Pontius
I've been known to dabble a little in the pilot recruitment and, so far, have not heard a thing about re-starting in Feb. Now given BA management, that is not unusual but I suppose the Feb bid pack will reveal a lot more. I'll have a sniff around and see if I can come up with any fuel to add to the fire.
Recover,
Have to agree with your comments regarding Not So. I'm not in the least annoyed by his contributions.
Chocolates aweigh,
Pontius
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411A and others,
In my current haunt at BA, we routinely work twenty days pcm (maximum legal?) and often four sector days (11+ hours duty with getting on for 8 hours airborne - used to do five sectors).
Please explain to me again how I'm supposed to work harder?
Also, how does one avoid dozing off at the wheel of ones car on the way home, thereby increasing the seniority by one of anyone below me?
BTW, how we are paid is decided between the unions and the company .........
In my current haunt at BA, we routinely work twenty days pcm (maximum legal?) and often four sector days (11+ hours duty with getting on for 8 hours airborne - used to do five sectors).
Please explain to me again how I'm supposed to work harder?
Also, how does one avoid dozing off at the wheel of ones car on the way home, thereby increasing the seniority by one of anyone below me?
BTW, how we are paid is decided between the unions and the company .........
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Feb might be a bit early, there are some guys at VS, BD, etc who have passed selection but are awaiting a call to arms around then. After that recruitment to re-start in May or thereabouts.
All accelerated by the Cadets getting seconded to CitiExpress this week.
All accelerated by the Cadets getting seconded to CitiExpress this week.
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411a: you are a bitter tw@t and don't know the proverbial sh!t from a sandwich, and as for "the guvnor"; the presumptiousness of your chosen "handle" says it all. Give us all a break.
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Is it likely given the supposed shortage of pilots and forthcoming retirements,that the cadet programme may be reinstated?
Cheers
(edited for rather embarassing grammar!)
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: Springbok220 ]
Cheers
(edited for rather embarassing grammar!)
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: Springbok220 ]
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900 hours in long haul. Pah!
Eeee, Aaaaa were working on't shorthaul last year, and Aaaaa did 810 hours in one year. Now that's what Aaaaa call 'ard work. Still t'draught were nice.
411A is a ruthless interloper with a very large fish hook. Guvnor, you really are quite strange. With that many posts I suggest you wear sun cream the next time you venture out of your cave. Do you really still live with your mother?
Eeee, Aaaaa were working on't shorthaul last year, and Aaaaa did 810 hours in one year. Now that's what Aaaaa call 'ard work. Still t'draught were nice.
411A is a ruthless interloper with a very large fish hook. Guvnor, you really are quite strange. With that many posts I suggest you wear sun cream the next time you venture out of your cave. Do you really still live with your mother?
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If the point is that we are short of pilots or will be soon, perhaps we should all be asking whether it is even worth working for BA?
In my opinion the answer is a big NO! I have worked for them for the last 5 years and despite an early command it has been a very frustrating experience.
If you join as a DEP you will almost certainly be taking a pay cut if arriving from one of the UK charter outfits. As a cadet you will be so screwed by the poor pay and pay back conditions that it will take about 7 years to recover.
What fleet you are sent too is irrelevant we all work very hard eg long haulers on 900 hours and constantly jet lagged or short haulers on earlies and 4/5 sector days.
To add insult to injury you will find yourself working alongside some of the highest paid cabin crew in the business (and some of the worst thanks to the multitude of contracts) Do not be surprised to find that many of them will earn more than you despite the fact that we all sweat blood to get and keep our tickets!
There are plenty of other operators that really offer a better overall quality of life than BA.
Regards Bigpants
In my opinion the answer is a big NO! I have worked for them for the last 5 years and despite an early command it has been a very frustrating experience.
If you join as a DEP you will almost certainly be taking a pay cut if arriving from one of the UK charter outfits. As a cadet you will be so screwed by the poor pay and pay back conditions that it will take about 7 years to recover.
What fleet you are sent too is irrelevant we all work very hard eg long haulers on 900 hours and constantly jet lagged or short haulers on earlies and 4/5 sector days.
To add insult to injury you will find yourself working alongside some of the highest paid cabin crew in the business (and some of the worst thanks to the multitude of contracts) Do not be surprised to find that many of them will earn more than you despite the fact that we all sweat blood to get and keep our tickets!
There are plenty of other operators that really offer a better overall quality of life than BA.
Regards Bigpants
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Bigpants - a sad but true post. The fact is that at BA approximately 1/3 of 3,600 pilots have been in the airline for less than 7 years and are on the "B" scale, taking home between £1,800 and £3,000 pcm. Longhaul cabin crew (new contract) take home about £2,000 (£2,500 old contract), pursers take home £2,500 to £3,000 and CSDs over £3,500. There are over 15,000 cabin crew. Its obvious why BA struggles to make any money!
All I can really say, though, is "well done BASSA". Shame on BALPA!
All I can really say, though, is "well done BASSA". Shame on BALPA!
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Well then Bigpants, when is your date of separation? I'm SURE there are PLENTY that would like to take your place.
For an airline, this is one of the BEST times to recruit crew...reasonably good selection and experience levels...and lower pay? A managers dream, then if they are bonded so they cannot escape(?), so much the better. And if treated properly...happy faces all 'round.
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]
For an airline, this is one of the BEST times to recruit crew...reasonably good selection and experience levels...and lower pay? A managers dream, then if they are bonded so they cannot escape(?), so much the better. And if treated properly...happy faces all 'round.
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]