BA short of pilots...what a surprise!
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Gotta say, I'm with Hot Wings and BigPants, Ba is the biggest pile of pants out there on the job market. Things have certainly changed. The pay is dire, status is practically zero, company morale is through the floor and we are overseen by a petty, small minded management. The last 5 years has been the biggest disappointment since the ribbed condom!
And furthermore, 411A, do us all a favour and go jump!
And furthermore, 411A, do us all a favour and go jump!
Join Date: May 2001
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Longhaul cabin crew (new contract) take home about £2,000 (£2,500 old contract), pursers take home £2,500 to £3,000 and CSDs over £3,500. There are over 15,000 cabin crew. Its obvious why BA struggles to make any money!
PS I have absolutely nothing to do with cabin crew, BA or otherwise, but this principal is a basic tenet of industrial relations.
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I'm a CSD on longhaul at LHR and I have never ever taken home £3500.00.
Infact last month I took home £1960.00.less than one of your so called new entrants on a basic of £9000.00. In fact far from taking home £2000.00 a month, many of the new entrants are currently looking for alternative work because they can't aford to live.
Get your facts right and you won't feel so hard done by.
Infact last month I took home £1960.00.less than one of your so called new entrants on a basic of £9000.00. In fact far from taking home £2000.00 a month, many of the new entrants are currently looking for alternative work because they can't aford to live.
Get your facts right and you won't feel so hard done by.
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So what is the latest news about the BA cadets being seconded to CitiExpress? How long will they operate the regional aircraft before moving over to mainline? Also will the door swing both ways, i.e would the existing regional guys and galls have the opportunity to move to London? 
Join Date: May 2001
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411A have been busy hence delay in reply however here it is. I have applied to several prospective employers, turned down one interview waiting for another and I am thinking about an offer from a small regional operator to join as management.
Why? because what I said in my previous post is true and those that follow us all into BA are going to learn the hard way. Secondly I really have grave doubts about it's long term viability it is hopelessly overmanned and cannot afford to make people rendundent in order to reduce its costs.
BA is no more resistant to collapse than many other equally good companies who have gone under in the past.
Regards Bigpants
Why? because what I said in my previous post is true and those that follow us all into BA are going to learn the hard way. Secondly I really have grave doubts about it's long term viability it is hopelessly overmanned and cannot afford to make people rendundent in order to reduce its costs.
BA is no more resistant to collapse than many other equally good companies who have gone under in the past.
Regards Bigpants
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bacrew6
"I'm a CSD on longhaul at LHR and I have never ever taken home £3500.00.
Infact last month I took home £1960.00.less than one of your so called new entrants on a basic of £9000.00. In fact far from taking home £2000.00 a month, many of the new entrants are currently looking for alternative work because they can't aford to live.
Get your facts right and you won't feel so hard done by." :o
Clearly you are part time! and seeking to mislead1
My wife is a BA purser - 33% part time - and earnt £16k last year.
Even American crews don't earn as much as BA cabin crew.
in.......live!
DH
"I'm a CSD on longhaul at LHR and I have never ever taken home £3500.00.
Infact last month I took home £1960.00.less than one of your so called new entrants on a basic of £9000.00. In fact far from taking home £2000.00 a month, many of the new entrants are currently looking for alternative work because they can't aford to live.
Get your facts right and you won't feel so hard done by." :o
Clearly you are part time! and seeking to mislead1
My wife is a BA purser - 33% part time - and earnt £16k last year.
Even American crews don't earn as much as BA cabin crew.
in.......live!
DH
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Well: just to add to gloom, I saw a brokers note recently relating to BA doubting that it could survive in its current form (i.e. with the mountain of debt bequethed by Rob A@ling and our current dire cashflow). After well over a decade with Big Airways I concur with the comments from those "inside" that I have read on this board.
"Sauve qui peut" seems appropriate right now.
"Sauve qui peut" seems appropriate right now.
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Well Bigpants, have to admit I was wrong about you.
Your conclusion about BA (and other very large overstaffed airlines, especially with far too many middle managers, and grossly overpaid cabin crew)is without a doubt absolutely correct. In the airline business today, ONLY the lean and cost effective will survive the long term and make reasonably good returns for their investors.
It never ceases to amaze me how many carriers fail to notice the problems (or just ignore them) until it is too late...or in the case of (for example)two large European carriers disappearing due to fraud and corruption, not to mention gross mismanagement.
When you get in that management position, see if you can make a difference. It ain't easy, but well worth the effort.
Your conclusion about BA (and other very large overstaffed airlines, especially with far too many middle managers, and grossly overpaid cabin crew)is without a doubt absolutely correct. In the airline business today, ONLY the lean and cost effective will survive the long term and make reasonably good returns for their investors.
It never ceases to amaze me how many carriers fail to notice the problems (or just ignore them) until it is too late...or in the case of (for example)two large European carriers disappearing due to fraud and corruption, not to mention gross mismanagement.
When you get in that management position, see if you can make a difference. It ain't easy, but well worth the effort.
PPRuNe Person
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We shall miss you, Bigpants, when you go...always sad to see one of the good guys disappear. Sadly, I feel BA will lose more until they get their management act together. Starting to look around myself...
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So then, what's the stae of play with CEPs who were in the system but had yet to start a type conversion? Obviuyosly some of those have completed Jet Orientation / MCC courses and can be picke dup at little or no notice to start type courses.
However, are BA doing this (I have heard rumours but not from what I regard as a reliable source inside BA)? If so, how many and if/when will they restart JOC/MCC? Are these people going to BA or subsidiaries? Or are BA just retraining people laid off from other fleets that have had aircraft cut?
Would any relaible source care to comment?
However, are BA doing this (I have heard rumours but not from what I regard as a reliable source inside BA)? If so, how many and if/when will they restart JOC/MCC? Are these people going to BA or subsidiaries? Or are BA just retraining people laid off from other fleets that have had aircraft cut?
Would any relaible source care to comment?
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The Cabin Crew situation is an absolute disgrace within BA, at both ends of the scale. I know new entrants who, if given poor rosters (i.e. expenses) earn less than an office temp. However, with average rosters (and I know this as I live with 2 new contract C/C) they take home between £1,200 and £1,500 a month which is a fair wage for the job.
As for the high end, I admit I can't confirm this, but a longhaul skipper once told me the old contract CSDs can earn £55K pa at the top end of the scale which if true is absolutely obscene for the job description. No wonder money haemorrages out...
As for the high end, I admit I can't confirm this, but a longhaul skipper once told me the old contract CSDs can earn £55K pa at the top end of the scale which if true is absolutely obscene for the job description. No wonder money haemorrages out...
BA Citi Express are now taking some of the CEPs onto their turboprop fleet. Citi Express is short of crews but cannot recruit externally due to the BA recruitment ban, so I guess it makes sense to second some of the CEPs. A course was scheduled to start on 4th December
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At one level I am glad that the CEP's are being at least offered positions within the franchises but.....how long will they they stay there and how easy will it be to get out?
This type of thing has happened before and on your first day at "Brymon" what do you do if they stick one of their contracts under your nose to sign? I hope that BALPA keep a close eye on the interests of the new entrants...the Devil is in the detail!
This type of thing has happened before and on your first day at "Brymon" what do you do if they stick one of their contracts under your nose to sign? I hope that BALPA keep a close eye on the interests of the new entrants...the Devil is in the detail!
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Bigpants, your last comments, illustrate why the view of a few CAP's induces concern within the franchise's, when forced to recruit from out of work BA CAP's.
Why would a company wish to employ people who are unhappy from the outset?
Although, probably a view held only by a few, it is an unfortunate fact of life, that some inexperienced people are unable to recognise when they are presented with an opportunity, not afforded many people in the world of aviation, especially in the current climate. There are those who feel that the world owes them a living and there are those who will do as little as possible because they feel they are undervalued. In the majority of cases, I feel that a reality check is needed.
Now, don't get me wronge. We would all like to see the best possible terms and conditions of employment. The above comments apply to management as much as to anyone, ( some would say more so) and there are those with legitimate greavances, but for those, not sure whether they could force themselves to sign a franchisee contract of employment if offered, my comment would probably run something along the line's of:- ' It's a free country. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!'.
Why would a company wish to employ people who are unhappy from the outset?
Although, probably a view held only by a few, it is an unfortunate fact of life, that some inexperienced people are unable to recognise when they are presented with an opportunity, not afforded many people in the world of aviation, especially in the current climate. There are those who feel that the world owes them a living and there are those who will do as little as possible because they feel they are undervalued. In the majority of cases, I feel that a reality check is needed.
Now, don't get me wronge. We would all like to see the best possible terms and conditions of employment. The above comments apply to management as much as to anyone, ( some would say more so) and there are those with legitimate greavances, but for those, not sure whether they could force themselves to sign a franchisee contract of employment if offered, my comment would probably run something along the line's of:- ' It's a free country. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!'.
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INLIVE
Just to let you know that I am full time. Let me tell you again I have never taken home £3500.00, and I don't understand my you find it hard to believe that I only took home £1960, last month, night stops dont pay that much in extras
My wife too is a Purser on shorthaul and works 33%, and she didn't earn 16k,last year,or for that matter any were near that.
Who does your wife know in cabin crew scheduling? Perhaps you would be good enough to let us both know so that we can earn some of this big money.
Just to let you know that I am full time. Let me tell you again I have never taken home £3500.00, and I don't understand my you find it hard to believe that I only took home £1960, last month, night stops dont pay that much in extras
My wife too is a Purser on shorthaul and works 33%, and she didn't earn 16k,last year,or for that matter any were near that.
Who does your wife know in cabin crew scheduling? Perhaps you would be good enough to let us both know so that we can earn some of this big money.