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BA short of pilots...what a surprise!

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BA short of pilots...what a surprise!

Old 2nd Dec 2001, 15:02
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Gotta say, I'm with Hot Wings and BigPants, Ba is the biggest pile of pants out there on the job market. Things have certainly changed. The pay is dire, status is practically zero, company morale is through the floor and we are overseen by a petty, small minded management. The last 5 years has been the biggest disappointment since the ribbed condom!
And furthermore, 411A, do us all a favour and go jump!
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Old 2nd Dec 2001, 15:10
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Longhaul cabin crew (new contract) take home about 2,000 (2,500 old contract), pursers take home 2,500 to 3,000 and CSDs over 3,500. There are over 15,000 cabin crew. Its obvious why BA struggles to make any money!
Hot Wings that sounds rather like sour grapes. Whatever the cabin crew are paid is their biz and good luck to them. If they're making more than the cockpit crew then you would be better pursuing a raise for yourselves than trying to drag them down.

PS I have absolutely nothing to do with cabin crew, BA or otherwise, but this principal is a basic tenet of industrial relations.
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Old 2nd Dec 2001, 16:02
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I'm a CSD on longhaul at LHR and I have never ever taken home 3500.00.
Infact last month I took home 1960.00.less than one of your so called new entrants on a basic of 9000.00. In fact far from taking home 2000.00 a month, many of the new entrants are currently looking for alternative work because they can't aford to live.
Get your facts right and you won't feel so hard done by.
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Old 2nd Dec 2001, 18:26
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Question

So what is the latest news about the BA cadets being seconded to CitiExpress? How long will they operate the regional aircraft before moving over to mainline? Also will the door swing both ways, i.e would the existing regional guys and galls have the opportunity to move to London?
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Old 3rd Dec 2001, 21:50
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Cadets seconded for 2 yrs.

There may be a chance for the door to swing both ways at some point - Scope clause under negotiation with BALPA at present.
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Old 4th Dec 2001, 13:03
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Smile

411A have been busy hence delay in reply however here it is. I have applied to several prospective employers, turned down one interview waiting for another and I am thinking about an offer from a small regional operator to join as management.

Why? because what I said in my previous post is true and those that follow us all into BA are going to learn the hard way. Secondly I really have grave doubts about it's long term viability it is hopelessly overmanned and cannot afford to make people rendundent in order to reduce its costs.

BA is no more resistant to collapse than many other equally good companies who have gone under in the past.
Regards Bigpants
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Old 4th Dec 2001, 13:24
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Red face

bacrew6

"I'm a CSD on longhaul at LHR and I have never ever taken home 3500.00.
Infact last month I took home 1960.00.less than one of your so called new entrants on a basic of 9000.00. In fact far from taking home 2000.00 a month, many of the new entrants are currently looking for alternative work because they can't aford to live.
Get your facts right and you won't feel so hard done by." :o

Clearly you are part time! and seeking to mislead1
My wife is a BA purser - 33% part time - and earnt 16k last year.
Even American crews don't earn as much as BA cabin crew.

in.......live!

DH
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Old 4th Dec 2001, 14:34
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Well: just to add to gloom, I saw a brokers note recently relating to BA doubting that it could survive in its current form (i.e. with the mountain of debt bequethed by Rob A@ling and our current dire cashflow). After well over a decade with Big Airways I concur with the comments from those "inside" that I have read on this board.

"Sauve qui peut" seems appropriate right now.
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Old 4th Dec 2001, 19:57
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Well Bigpants, have to admit I was wrong about you.
Your conclusion about BA (and other very large overstaffed airlines, especially with far too many middle managers, and grossly overpaid cabin crew)is without a doubt absolutely correct. In the airline business today, ONLY the lean and cost effective will survive the long term and make reasonably good returns for their investors.
It never ceases to amaze me how many carriers fail to notice the problems (or just ignore them) until it is too late...or in the case of (for example)two large European carriers disappearing due to fraud and corruption, not to mention gross mismanagement.
When you get in that management position, see if you can make a difference. It ain't easy, but well worth the effort.
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Old 5th Dec 2001, 04:18
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Unhappy

We shall miss you, Bigpants, when you go...always sad to see one of the good guys disappear. Sadly, I feel BA will lose more until they get their management act together. Starting to look around myself...
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Old 5th Dec 2001, 16:15
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So then, what's the stae of play with CEPs who were in the system but had yet to start a type conversion? Obviuyosly some of those have completed Jet Orientation / MCC courses and can be picke dup at little or no notice to start type courses.

However, are BA doing this (I have heard rumours but not from what I regard as a reliable source inside BA)? If so, how many and if/when will they restart JOC/MCC? Are these people going to BA or subsidiaries? Or are BA just retraining people laid off from other fleets that have had aircraft cut?

Would any relaible source care to comment?
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Old 5th Dec 2001, 20:25
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Thumbs down

The Cabin Crew situation is an absolute disgrace within BA, at both ends of the scale. I know new entrants who, if given poor rosters (i.e. expenses) earn less than an office temp. However, with average rosters (and I know this as I live with 2 new contract C/C) they take home between 1,200 and 1,500 a month which is a fair wage for the job.

As for the high end, I admit I can't confirm this, but a longhaul skipper once told me the old contract CSDs can earn 55K pa at the top end of the scale which if true is absolutely obscene for the job description. No wonder money haemorrages out...
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Old 5th Dec 2001, 20:27
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Thumbs up

BA Citi Express are now taking some of the CEPs onto their turboprop fleet. Citi Express is short of crews but cannot recruit externally due to the BA recruitment ban, so I guess it makes sense to second some of the CEPs. A course was scheduled to start on 4th December
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Old 5th Dec 2001, 22:49
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Thumbs up

At one level I am glad that the CEP's are being at least offered positions within the franchises but.....how long will they they stay there and how easy will it be to get out?

This type of thing has happened before and on your first day at "Brymon" what do you do if they stick one of their contracts under your nose to sign? I hope that BALPA keep a close eye on the interests of the new entrants...the Devil is in the detail!
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Old 6th Dec 2001, 13:00
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Bigpants, your last comments, illustrate why the view of a few CAP's induces concern within the franchise's, when forced to recruit from out of work BA CAP's.
Why would a company wish to employ people who are unhappy from the outset?
Although, probably a view held only by a few, it is an unfortunate fact of life, that some inexperienced people are unable to recognise when they are presented with an opportunity, not afforded many people in the world of aviation, especially in the current climate. There are those who feel that the world owes them a living and there are those who will do as little as possible because they feel they are undervalued. In the majority of cases, I feel that a reality check is needed.
Now, don't get me wronge. We would all like to see the best possible terms and conditions of employment. The above comments apply to management as much as to anyone, ( some would say more so) and there are those with legitimate greavances, but for those, not sure whether they could force themselves to sign a franchisee contract of employment if offered, my comment would probably run something along the line's of:- ' It's a free country. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!'.
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Old 6th Dec 2001, 17:42
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Howdy all,
411A used to contribute all sorts of rubbish in the Fragrant Harbour forum. Seems he is at it again. Ignore him, we did.

Cheers from CX.
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Old 6th Dec 2001, 19:31
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INLIVE

Just to let you know that I am full time. Let me tell you again I have never taken home 3500.00, and I don't understand my you find it hard to believe that I only took home 1960, last month, night stops dont pay that much in extras

My wife too is a Purser on shorthaul and works 33%, and she didn't earn 16k,last year,or for that matter any were near that.
Who does your wife know in cabin crew scheduling? Perhaps you would be good enough to let us both know so that we can earn some of this big money.
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Old 6th Dec 2001, 23:56
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You should get yourself up to the regions! I know of a junior steward (6 months experience) who took home 2K one month! It was more than me!
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Old 7th Dec 2001, 01:13
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well there you go!
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Old 7th Dec 2001, 05:42
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411A.
No partner, no life, no pilot's licence, no Sense.
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