BA288 Emergency at Phoenix
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Tandemrotor
My wife is pretty sensible and well travelled, so I am comfortable to accept her assertion as I described it (i.e. either there was no PA or it was inaudible). She was seated in row 36, so not in a remote corner, or whatever, in terms of being able to hear any PA. She mentioned no other form of audible alarm. Thanks to the very helpful BA ground staff at PHX, she's back in the UK now, so I cannot easily ask her.
I think I already mentioned she only knew an evac was happening because she was two rows ahead of Door 3 (or 2) Right and so could see it starting.
Rheum101 made a valid comment that some kind of "holding" PA may have been better than nothing at all, though of course I recognise this could actually generate panic in other areas of the aircraft where passengers may not actually be aware of any issues.
I don't think I was knocking the BA SOPs or CC - hey, everybody got off thank goodness and pretty quickly (once it started, that is).
However, I'm quite surprised nobody has picked up on the fifteen or twenty minutes all the passengers spent standing around out on the ramp comparatively close to the aircraft, watching the fire crews arrive and investigate?? They were there long enough for ground staff to rustle up and start distributing cases of bottled water and this will certainly have taken quite a few minutes, for sure! This did not sound very bright to me, in light of the likely blast area of that (obviously profoundly worse) China Airlines flight 120 incident.
I'm not certain if the air-side stand number corresponds with the in-terminal gate number but, if you are familiar with KPHX and terminal gate number B25 (the one normally used by BA), you will know the BA pax could not have strayed very far from the aircraft without risking infringing the nearby taxiways C and R. Taxiway R is an important route to 25R, used by many of the regional US Air Terminal Four departures at this time of the evening (and I note this area is noted as non-vis from the tower).
My wife is pretty sensible and well travelled, so I am comfortable to accept her assertion as I described it (i.e. either there was no PA or it was inaudible). She was seated in row 36, so not in a remote corner, or whatever, in terms of being able to hear any PA. She mentioned no other form of audible alarm. Thanks to the very helpful BA ground staff at PHX, she's back in the UK now, so I cannot easily ask her.
I think I already mentioned she only knew an evac was happening because she was two rows ahead of Door 3 (or 2) Right and so could see it starting.
Rheum101 made a valid comment that some kind of "holding" PA may have been better than nothing at all, though of course I recognise this could actually generate panic in other areas of the aircraft where passengers may not actually be aware of any issues.
I don't think I was knocking the BA SOPs or CC - hey, everybody got off thank goodness and pretty quickly (once it started, that is).
However, I'm quite surprised nobody has picked up on the fifteen or twenty minutes all the passengers spent standing around out on the ramp comparatively close to the aircraft, watching the fire crews arrive and investigate?? They were there long enough for ground staff to rustle up and start distributing cases of bottled water and this will certainly have taken quite a few minutes, for sure! This did not sound very bright to me, in light of the likely blast area of that (obviously profoundly worse) China Airlines flight 120 incident.
I'm not certain if the air-side stand number corresponds with the in-terminal gate number but, if you are familiar with KPHX and terminal gate number B25 (the one normally used by BA), you will know the BA pax could not have strayed very far from the aircraft without risking infringing the nearby taxiways C and R. Taxiway R is an important route to 25R, used by many of the regional US Air Terminal Four departures at this time of the evening (and I note this area is noted as non-vis from the tower).
Everyone (apart from positionandhold and including rainboe, which DOES surprise me...) appears to be missing the core issue:
Lack of clear information.
As in "If they didn't hear it, you didn't say it"
In a situation like this, early on in the piece a crew member HAS to say something along the lines of
"We have a problem with the cabin ventilation, there's no danger, we're checking and we'll let you know what's happening"
I've experienced the whole bandwidth - from waiting AN HOUR after you've watched them tow the aircraft away from the terminal before being informed of a delay to a running commentary of which screw they were tightening at that very instant (Not quite, but not far off...)
Somewhere in between would be good, and if I can smell smoke in the cabin and people are moving away from the source, I want to to know NOW.
If Mrs P&H didn't hear cabin PAs, then - to all intents and purposes - there weren't any.
Lack of clear information.
As in "If they didn't hear it, you didn't say it"
In a situation like this, early on in the piece a crew member HAS to say something along the lines of
"We have a problem with the cabin ventilation, there's no danger, we're checking and we'll let you know what's happening"
I've experienced the whole bandwidth - from waiting AN HOUR after you've watched them tow the aircraft away from the terminal before being informed of a delay to a running commentary of which screw they were tightening at that very instant (Not quite, but not far off...)
Somewhere in between would be good, and if I can smell smoke in the cabin and people are moving away from the source, I want to to know NOW.
If Mrs P&H didn't hear cabin PAs, then - to all intents and purposes - there weren't any.
Last edited by RevMan2; 13th Jul 2009 at 10:03. Reason: Mismatched tense
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Oh and just where are you going to rustle up 300+ bottles of water at that time of night, in 30 mins??
Just another number
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frangatan
I think that you might have misunderstood positionand holds statement;
The ground staff did manage to locate 300 bottles of water.
Dave
I think that you might have misunderstood positionand holds statement;
They were there long enough for ground staff to rustle up and start distributing cases of bottled water and this will certainly have taken quite a few minutes, for sure!
Dave
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positionandhold, the proximity of other stands and taxiways wouldn't so much have been an issue, I'm sure ATC would have stopped everything.
Re the standing around on the ramp etc, people are quick to criticise, but don't think of the situation practically... How do they get staff there asap to look after pax when they may be busy and hard to reach immediately. Where do they get the bottles of water from for that amount of people. If the staff have no information (as BA may not know what to do immediately) then they would be lying to pax if they told them something etc etc.. put yourself on the other side. If I were paxing and ended up in a similar situation, I know I'd just have to be patient, and glad that I got out of the aircraft in the first place!
Re the standing around on the ramp etc, people are quick to criticise, but don't think of the situation practically... How do they get staff there asap to look after pax when they may be busy and hard to reach immediately. Where do they get the bottles of water from for that amount of people. If the staff have no information (as BA may not know what to do immediately) then they would be lying to pax if they told them something etc etc.. put yourself on the other side. If I were paxing and ended up in a similar situation, I know I'd just have to be patient, and glad that I got out of the aircraft in the first place!
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She was seated in row 36
It is BA procedure that when an evacuation is initiated that the "evac alarm" be sounded however this would only be a brief alarm as the crew are instructed to immediately silence the horn at their respective door in order for the passengers to be able to hear their commands! It is a loud alarm that sounds much like your typical domestic fire alarm but with a lot of people shouting it would be possible not to hear it!
As for no PA's, well I can assure you that there were probably plenty of "ding dongs" going on in the galley in the minutes prior to the evacuation being called as crew and flight deck discussed the situation via the interphones.
Once again to the crew...You did us proud!!!
Positionand Hold......also big
to your wife for getting back onboard and completing the journey! I suppose its a bit like riding a horse, when you first fall off you just have to get back up and keep going!
As for no PA's, well I can assure you that there were probably plenty of "ding dongs" going on in the galley in the minutes prior to the evacuation being called as crew and flight deck discussed the situation via the interphones.
Plenty of "ding dongs"
Which makes people think that something must be up, but - not having a ding-dong dictionary to hand - were unable to determine exactly what.
Very clear communication....
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RevMan2
There may well be lessons to learn from this event - but as you weren't there on the scene, and all we have to go on is secondary information which may/may not bear any resemblance to what actually happened - it's a tad early to start accusing the crew of failing to communicate properly what was or wasn't going on.
There may well be lessons to learn from this event - but as you weren't there on the scene, and all we have to go on is secondary information which may/may not bear any resemblance to what actually happened - it's a tad early to start accusing the crew of failing to communicate properly what was or wasn't going on.
If you bothered to read the thread properly, THERE is a first hand account as relayed by position & hold. It's a report as she saw it, not as is all too usual on here by posters who throw up every conceivable (and at times some pretty bizarre ideas) as to what really occurred.
People just seem more anxious about getting their comment into a thread instead of ensuring it is contributing to the thread and not detracting.
Whilst there appeared to be a slow start, once the evacuation commenced, it was all handled very professionally, with credit due to all aboard and the ground crew. What appears to be in need of improvement is for better communication, which no doubt will be addressed by the appropriate authorities. It should also address the continued mindless reaction of some pax to bring their luggage when ordered to evacuate, as happened previously in the Hudson ditching.
Let's just be glad that all got off safely.
People just seem more anxious about getting their comment into a thread instead of ensuring it is contributing to the thread and not detracting.
Whilst there appeared to be a slow start, once the evacuation commenced, it was all handled very professionally, with credit due to all aboard and the ground crew. What appears to be in need of improvement is for better communication, which no doubt will be addressed by the appropriate authorities. It should also address the continued mindless reaction of some pax to bring their luggage when ordered to evacuate, as happened previously in the Hudson ditching.
Let's just be glad that all got off safely.
I think you have to be careful about prioritizing passenger communications when there are all sorts of other things happening.
Thinking about what might have been going on the flight deck: ATC need to be notified and kept in the loop, the CSD and possibly other crew members close to the action would be on the interphone, the pushback crew/engineer would need to be told what to do. System status would need monitoring, checklists could need to be actioned. When it started looking like an evacuation might be necessary, I'm sure there was some serious discussion and an agreement reached as it is NOT something you order lightly, especially in something the size of a 747.
Yes, in the ideal world, there would be a calm voice explaining what was happening all the time. I suspect that in this incident they were just too busy or regarded it as low priority. After all, if the situation warrants an evacuation you'll get one; if it doesn't, you won't.
One of our trainers had someone do a PA in the sim. recently after an engine fire on takeoff: very good PR and reassuring to the passengers... Apart from the fact they started it at 300' before shutting down the engine! You can go too far to try and please 'the cabin' - I think most people would rather get out intact than have a running commentary if they had to choose between the two...
Thinking about what might have been going on the flight deck: ATC need to be notified and kept in the loop, the CSD and possibly other crew members close to the action would be on the interphone, the pushback crew/engineer would need to be told what to do. System status would need monitoring, checklists could need to be actioned. When it started looking like an evacuation might be necessary, I'm sure there was some serious discussion and an agreement reached as it is NOT something you order lightly, especially in something the size of a 747.
Yes, in the ideal world, there would be a calm voice explaining what was happening all the time. I suspect that in this incident they were just too busy or regarded it as low priority. After all, if the situation warrants an evacuation you'll get one; if it doesn't, you won't.
One of our trainers had someone do a PA in the sim. recently after an engine fire on takeoff: very good PR and reassuring to the passengers... Apart from the fact they started it at 300' before shutting down the engine! You can go too far to try and please 'the cabin' - I think most people would rather get out intact than have a running commentary if they had to choose between the two...
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One thing we do not lack in PHX is bottle water. There would have been a commissary truck loaded with water nearby. Go into any 7-11 or Circle K in Phoenix and buy a beverage. You will see 64 oz sizes for sale for a reason. We can drink 2 litres of fluid and never have to pee in 45 degree (c) heat.
One issue with B 25 is, since it is an international gate, it is very secure from the ramp. It would have taken 15 minutes or so to get ICE (customs) personnel to give permission to open up the rampside to get the people up the stairs into the terminal. Also, it is still over 40 degrees at departure time. The ramp surface is very hot, the low overnight in PHX this time of year is 31C (88 F). I am amazed that there were so few injuries, it shows the slides really do work well.
I bid every northern or coastal city I can in the summer. Off to YYZ tomorrow.
One issue with B 25 is, since it is an international gate, it is very secure from the ramp. It would have taken 15 minutes or so to get ICE (customs) personnel to give permission to open up the rampside to get the people up the stairs into the terminal. Also, it is still over 40 degrees at departure time. The ramp surface is very hot, the low overnight in PHX this time of year is 31C (88 F). I am amazed that there were so few injuries, it shows the slides really do work well.
I bid every northern or coastal city I can in the summer. Off to YYZ tomorrow.
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My Experience
I posted the message below on the Flyertalk forum. I believe it fills in a few blanks.
I was on this flight along with my wife and 2 sons (aged 14 and 11). I was searching the web to see if I could find a story on what was the cause of the fumes/smoke and came across this thread. I have found the comments and opinions very interesting so I thought I would take the opportunity to relay our experience. Hopefully this will answer some of the questions you all have, and no doubt raise others.
We checked in online 24 hours before the flight and got seats in 45D-G. I wanted to get seats in the first economy section (row 28-36) but could not get 4 together in the centre (sidenote - I know BA pre-allocate groups with children and EC members of a certain level can check in earlier but I can never workout why so many seats seem to be gone before check in opens).
On the day of the flight we arrived at the airport about 130 mins before departure time and proceeded to the BA check in desks. The check in line for world traveller was practically empty but the "fast bag drop" queue had about a dozen or so people in front of us. It took about 10 mins to drop the bags and we were informed that the flight was delayed about 25 mins but we would still arrive in Heathrow on time. We went and grabbed a bite to eat then went through security and got to the gate (B25 if I recall) around 7pm. There seemed to be quite a number of TSA staff in the vicinity of the gate, certainly more than I ever recall seeing at any gate in the US before). There were also some police dotted around. My wife commented that something seemed to be going on.
General boarding began around 7.15pm and being near the back our row was in the first group called. Going down the jetway there were a number of people in plain clothes with gold "law enforcement" type badges around their necks, and some TSA staff, including 1 with a sniffer dog (I estimate there were half a dozen or so of these plain clothes people on the jetway). Some passengers were stopped and questioned however we proceeded directly to the plane and our seats. On settling down the first thing I noticed was that it was quite hot on the plane and the AC was obviously not on. About 20-30 mins later the captain announced that the door was closed and we would be on our way in a couple of mins. I believe at this point all passengers were seated and the seat belt check had been done. We pushed back and the engines were turned on.
When the AC came on I turned to my wife and joked that it smelt as if someone had a bad case of diahorrea (sp?) as the smell coming through the AC was unpleasant. She had a cold and at that point could not smell anything. Within a minute or so the smell had became considerably worse and I could see a number of other passengers begin to look around the cabin and at the crew who were by now going up the ailses, sniffing and looking slightly concerned. A few minutes later the smell had increased to the point where people were beginning to cough, babies were crying and it was pretty apparent that something was wrong. By this time I was breathing into my pillow and advised my wife and children to do the same, however my wife was having difficulty breathing and she was beginning to panic. A number of people by this time had undone their seatbelts and had began to stand up. Some even moved forward in the cabin towards the front of the plane. The cabin crew from what I could see did not ask them to re-take their seats.
The following all happened within about 2-3 minutes:
The captain came on the PA and announced that they had detected an unusual odor in the cabin and that he would be shutting down the engines and we would be getting towed back to the stand and said cabin crew doors to manual. I am pretty sure at that point the AC seemed to go off but cannot be certain. Some people were still having breathing issues and a PA announcement advised passengers to use the headrest covers to breathe into. By now even more people had stood up and some were removing items from overhead bins and seatback pockets. Again some moved towards the front of the aircraft. I am not sure if it was a PA announcement but some crew member was telling people to re-take their seats. On the left ailse (looking from the rear) a guy came into the rear cabin and shouted "nobody come this way there is a fire". This created a bit of a panic amongst the passengers and most by now had stood up and were trying to get out of their seats. The captain then came on and announced " cabin crew doors to automatic" and a few seconds later "emergency evacuation, emergency evacuation, right hand side of the aircraft only". An alarm was going off and there was a whooshing sound. I grabbed my family and we headed to the exit at the rear (we had already grabbed our hand luggage when the announcement about going back to the stand was made). There was a lot of pushing and people were yelling and screaming, I looked forward and saw that only a few people were at the next exit (forward of our seats) so I directed my family to that one. Our way to the exit was held up by someone leaning back into their seat reaching into the seatback. My wife asked them what they were doing and they said they were getting a book. I yelled at them to get out the f*&%ing way. We got to the exit and the crew were yelling "jump, jump". I made sure my wife and kids were away then I jumped onto the slide. When I reached the bottom I got my family and we made our way as fast as possible away from the plane as far as possible. Some passengers were standing near the aircraft taking pictures and I shouted at one to stop being so f&%*ing stupid that the plane might be on fire.
We got about 100 yards from the plane but a runway was nearby and the other gates had planes at them so we couldn't go any further. Sirens were going on all around and lights could be seen tearing down both sides of the runway. Police arrived and they asked us to move back nearer the main crowd. I questioned why we should move back towards an aircraft that may be on fire but was told that we were standing on a live taxiway and were too near the runway. We reluctantly moved back to the edges of the crowd.
I would estimate that it appeared to take no more than 3 mins to get everybody off the plane.
Cabin crew and firemen were now coming around asking if anybody was injured or required treatment. I asked why no transport was being sent to get us out the way but no-one could answer. My wife had a couple of burns on her hand from the slide and I had burnt my elbow, otherwise we were fine.
About 20 mins later we were asked to walk back into the terminal via a door under the gate. We walked throught immigration (I joked to someone that surely we wouldn't need to fill in the waiver and customs forms again) and we walked through the bag reclaim and customs then eventually into the main terminal where we were greeted with TV camera's!
The rest was just what you would expect, chaos, with most BA groundstaff having left already. About 11pm we checked into the Crown Plaza hotel compliments of BA. We had been told that there was no information on when checked baggage would be available as the chutes were in the way of the hold access and the fire department were not allowing access. Hand luggage had been brought to the bag reclaim about 10.30pm. Speaking to a woman at the hotel who had been on the plane she said the she was seated in row 33 and that smoke had been coming out from behind her son's seat.
No flames were seen.
We had been advised to call 1-800-airways in the morning. I called about 8am and was advised we were being rebooked on UA370 to Denver the BA218 to London. My final destination was Edinburgh and I was informed that the only flights to EDI available were from London City! (£115 BA owe me for a taxi fare).
Sorry for the long winded report but I wanted to try and relay the events in as much detail as possible. A few observations:
Something was definitely going on before we boarded, with all the TSA and other badged guys and sniffer dogs about. I have travelled extensively to the US and never seen this before.
When it was apparent that the smell was not normal it took too long in my opinion before it was decided to return to the gate (about 10 mins in my estimation). People were having difficulty breathing, not bad enough to pass out, but in a confined space like a plane it was a dangerous and volatile situation.
I read the report from the passenger in row 43 who stated that a passenger opened a door on the left side of the plane - I have no idea if this happened however she appears to be stating that this was at least a 30 secs to a minute before the rest of the doors were opened. All I can say is I never heard any commotion or such like. She states that there was no official announcement - as I stated an emergency evacuation was ordered by the captain.
I am not sure of the procedures but I am sure the captain ordered doors to manual when announcing we would be going back to the stand. Then doors to automatic seconds before announcing the evac.
I am still surprised that there seemed to be no emergency procedures in place when the plane was emptied, we were all milling on the tarmac for what seemed ages. All I could think of was fire-fuel, bad combination, although I also assumed there would be some sort of safety system to stop any fire spreading to the fuel.
When we went back into the terminal we were all just hanging around the BA check in area. I cannot believe that BA/Sky Harbour don't have some sort of disaster procedure, or at least a big room where all passengers could be addressed.
Hope this fills in some of the blanks and explains why some people had hand baggage with them. (Once it was announced we were going back to the stand a lot of people near me grabbed their stuff). I am pretty sure the smell was not too bad in some parts of the plane so this may explain why some people had left their bags onboard).
It is very easy to say from outside what you would have done in this situation, all I can say is I believe I remained fairly calm although I was very concerned when the guy shouted there's a fire. Everybody reacts differently in a crisis. There was definitely a level of panic in the rear of the plane around us. Someone commented earlier in the thread that as no one had been treated for breathing difficulties there should have been no panic. All I can say is the fumes were catching in my throat and I had to breathe into my pillow. Others, including my wife, had tears from the fumes and were coughing quite badly.
All in all it was a very scary situation. The crew looked very scared and when the captain announced the evacuation there was a high level of tension in his voice.
Hopefully we will never have to go through it again!!
I was on this flight along with my wife and 2 sons (aged 14 and 11). I was searching the web to see if I could find a story on what was the cause of the fumes/smoke and came across this thread. I have found the comments and opinions very interesting so I thought I would take the opportunity to relay our experience. Hopefully this will answer some of the questions you all have, and no doubt raise others.
We checked in online 24 hours before the flight and got seats in 45D-G. I wanted to get seats in the first economy section (row 28-36) but could not get 4 together in the centre (sidenote - I know BA pre-allocate groups with children and EC members of a certain level can check in earlier but I can never workout why so many seats seem to be gone before check in opens).
On the day of the flight we arrived at the airport about 130 mins before departure time and proceeded to the BA check in desks. The check in line for world traveller was practically empty but the "fast bag drop" queue had about a dozen or so people in front of us. It took about 10 mins to drop the bags and we were informed that the flight was delayed about 25 mins but we would still arrive in Heathrow on time. We went and grabbed a bite to eat then went through security and got to the gate (B25 if I recall) around 7pm. There seemed to be quite a number of TSA staff in the vicinity of the gate, certainly more than I ever recall seeing at any gate in the US before). There were also some police dotted around. My wife commented that something seemed to be going on.
General boarding began around 7.15pm and being near the back our row was in the first group called. Going down the jetway there were a number of people in plain clothes with gold "law enforcement" type badges around their necks, and some TSA staff, including 1 with a sniffer dog (I estimate there were half a dozen or so of these plain clothes people on the jetway). Some passengers were stopped and questioned however we proceeded directly to the plane and our seats. On settling down the first thing I noticed was that it was quite hot on the plane and the AC was obviously not on. About 20-30 mins later the captain announced that the door was closed and we would be on our way in a couple of mins. I believe at this point all passengers were seated and the seat belt check had been done. We pushed back and the engines were turned on.
When the AC came on I turned to my wife and joked that it smelt as if someone had a bad case of diahorrea (sp?) as the smell coming through the AC was unpleasant. She had a cold and at that point could not smell anything. Within a minute or so the smell had became considerably worse and I could see a number of other passengers begin to look around the cabin and at the crew who were by now going up the ailses, sniffing and looking slightly concerned. A few minutes later the smell had increased to the point where people were beginning to cough, babies were crying and it was pretty apparent that something was wrong. By this time I was breathing into my pillow and advised my wife and children to do the same, however my wife was having difficulty breathing and she was beginning to panic. A number of people by this time had undone their seatbelts and had began to stand up. Some even moved forward in the cabin towards the front of the plane. The cabin crew from what I could see did not ask them to re-take their seats.
The following all happened within about 2-3 minutes:
The captain came on the PA and announced that they had detected an unusual odor in the cabin and that he would be shutting down the engines and we would be getting towed back to the stand and said cabin crew doors to manual. I am pretty sure at that point the AC seemed to go off but cannot be certain. Some people were still having breathing issues and a PA announcement advised passengers to use the headrest covers to breathe into. By now even more people had stood up and some were removing items from overhead bins and seatback pockets. Again some moved towards the front of the aircraft. I am not sure if it was a PA announcement but some crew member was telling people to re-take their seats. On the left ailse (looking from the rear) a guy came into the rear cabin and shouted "nobody come this way there is a fire". This created a bit of a panic amongst the passengers and most by now had stood up and were trying to get out of their seats. The captain then came on and announced " cabin crew doors to automatic" and a few seconds later "emergency evacuation, emergency evacuation, right hand side of the aircraft only". An alarm was going off and there was a whooshing sound. I grabbed my family and we headed to the exit at the rear (we had already grabbed our hand luggage when the announcement about going back to the stand was made). There was a lot of pushing and people were yelling and screaming, I looked forward and saw that only a few people were at the next exit (forward of our seats) so I directed my family to that one. Our way to the exit was held up by someone leaning back into their seat reaching into the seatback. My wife asked them what they were doing and they said they were getting a book. I yelled at them to get out the f*&%ing way. We got to the exit and the crew were yelling "jump, jump". I made sure my wife and kids were away then I jumped onto the slide. When I reached the bottom I got my family and we made our way as fast as possible away from the plane as far as possible. Some passengers were standing near the aircraft taking pictures and I shouted at one to stop being so f&%*ing stupid that the plane might be on fire.
We got about 100 yards from the plane but a runway was nearby and the other gates had planes at them so we couldn't go any further. Sirens were going on all around and lights could be seen tearing down both sides of the runway. Police arrived and they asked us to move back nearer the main crowd. I questioned why we should move back towards an aircraft that may be on fire but was told that we were standing on a live taxiway and were too near the runway. We reluctantly moved back to the edges of the crowd.
I would estimate that it appeared to take no more than 3 mins to get everybody off the plane.
Cabin crew and firemen were now coming around asking if anybody was injured or required treatment. I asked why no transport was being sent to get us out the way but no-one could answer. My wife had a couple of burns on her hand from the slide and I had burnt my elbow, otherwise we were fine.
About 20 mins later we were asked to walk back into the terminal via a door under the gate. We walked throught immigration (I joked to someone that surely we wouldn't need to fill in the waiver and customs forms again) and we walked through the bag reclaim and customs then eventually into the main terminal where we were greeted with TV camera's!
The rest was just what you would expect, chaos, with most BA groundstaff having left already. About 11pm we checked into the Crown Plaza hotel compliments of BA. We had been told that there was no information on when checked baggage would be available as the chutes were in the way of the hold access and the fire department were not allowing access. Hand luggage had been brought to the bag reclaim about 10.30pm. Speaking to a woman at the hotel who had been on the plane she said the she was seated in row 33 and that smoke had been coming out from behind her son's seat.
No flames were seen.
We had been advised to call 1-800-airways in the morning. I called about 8am and was advised we were being rebooked on UA370 to Denver the BA218 to London. My final destination was Edinburgh and I was informed that the only flights to EDI available were from London City! (£115 BA owe me for a taxi fare).
Sorry for the long winded report but I wanted to try and relay the events in as much detail as possible. A few observations:
Something was definitely going on before we boarded, with all the TSA and other badged guys and sniffer dogs about. I have travelled extensively to the US and never seen this before.
When it was apparent that the smell was not normal it took too long in my opinion before it was decided to return to the gate (about 10 mins in my estimation). People were having difficulty breathing, not bad enough to pass out, but in a confined space like a plane it was a dangerous and volatile situation.
I read the report from the passenger in row 43 who stated that a passenger opened a door on the left side of the plane - I have no idea if this happened however she appears to be stating that this was at least a 30 secs to a minute before the rest of the doors were opened. All I can say is I never heard any commotion or such like. She states that there was no official announcement - as I stated an emergency evacuation was ordered by the captain.
I am not sure of the procedures but I am sure the captain ordered doors to manual when announcing we would be going back to the stand. Then doors to automatic seconds before announcing the evac.
I am still surprised that there seemed to be no emergency procedures in place when the plane was emptied, we were all milling on the tarmac for what seemed ages. All I could think of was fire-fuel, bad combination, although I also assumed there would be some sort of safety system to stop any fire spreading to the fuel.
When we went back into the terminal we were all just hanging around the BA check in area. I cannot believe that BA/Sky Harbour don't have some sort of disaster procedure, or at least a big room where all passengers could be addressed.
Hope this fills in some of the blanks and explains why some people had hand baggage with them. (Once it was announced we were going back to the stand a lot of people near me grabbed their stuff). I am pretty sure the smell was not too bad in some parts of the plane so this may explain why some people had left their bags onboard).
It is very easy to say from outside what you would have done in this situation, all I can say is I believe I remained fairly calm although I was very concerned when the guy shouted there's a fire. Everybody reacts differently in a crisis. There was definitely a level of panic in the rear of the plane around us. Someone commented earlier in the thread that as no one had been treated for breathing difficulties there should have been no panic. All I can say is the fumes were catching in my throat and I had to breathe into my pillow. Others, including my wife, had tears from the fumes and were coughing quite badly.
All in all it was a very scary situation. The crew looked very scared and when the captain announced the evacuation there was a high level of tension in his voice.
Hopefully we will never have to go through it again!!
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Appreciate your concern, sarcastic or otherwise.
FYI when we were advised that we were going back to the stand we gathered up our bags that were to hand. When the emergency evac was declared our stuff was already in hand and I didn't think it was wise to start looking for somewhere to dump it. All we had were a couple of small backpacks.
I am not a pilot (which I assume you worked out) but have flown over 300,000 miles so would describe myself as a frequent flyer, not some sort of idiot. There were a lot of scared people on this plane and the crew took far too long to come to a decision. Wouldn't it be more sensible to comment on that?
FYI when we were advised that we were going back to the stand we gathered up our bags that were to hand. When the emergency evac was declared our stuff was already in hand and I didn't think it was wise to start looking for somewhere to dump it. All we had were a couple of small backpacks.
I am not a pilot (which I assume you worked out) but have flown over 300,000 miles so would describe myself as a frequent flyer, not some sort of idiot. There were a lot of scared people on this plane and the crew took far too long to come to a decision. Wouldn't it be more sensible to comment on that?
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williamd, You said you were looking for information as to what happened. It sounds to me as though one of the engines has probably suffered an internal bearing failure and engine oil has found it's way via the pneumatic ducts into the air conditioning system so resulting in smoke and fumes in the cabin.
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Strongly disagree, fullwings...
Come on. First priority is to get passengers and crew to safety. 'Notify ATC'? give me a break.
This incident seems to me to be in the grand tradition of failed communication between the cabin and the flight deck, with the result that the pilots were unaware of the seriousness of the situation (ie that the fumes were serious enough to warrant an evacuation, rather than return to stand).
The point of this sort of incident is not that it ended reasonably well, but that the same actions would have had a very poor outcome if there had been fire as well as fumes. Several minutes of delay, poor communications and indecision could have resulted in a body count.
Evacuation of a 747 is not to be taken lightly, as you say. But it should be done decisively, positively and in a timely fashion. Lucky this time...
This incident seems to me to be in the grand tradition of failed communication between the cabin and the flight deck, with the result that the pilots were unaware of the seriousness of the situation (ie that the fumes were serious enough to warrant an evacuation, rather than return to stand).
The point of this sort of incident is not that it ended reasonably well, but that the same actions would have had a very poor outcome if there had been fire as well as fumes. Several minutes of delay, poor communications and indecision could have resulted in a body count.
Evacuation of a 747 is not to be taken lightly, as you say. But it should be done decisively, positively and in a timely fashion. Lucky this time...
Last edited by BryceM; 14th Jul 2009 at 04:02. Reason: Too strident
Bags
Thing about the bags is that for many people it may represent an enormous difficulty to replace the contents. I don't mean cameras, or a bit of money. However, all credit/bank cards, all money, passport, driving license, mobile phone, contacts book... Everything except say a few paper hankies, some mints and $3.50 in change. It has been my practise when travelling to put all critical material in my carry on bag and to look after it very carefully.
Perhaps the airlines should advise passengers to ensure that they have such items in a moneybelt or similar? The prospect of being trapped in an airport in some random country, without any resouces at all, at some random time of the day or night, without any clue as to what help might be offered is quite scary to me. Of course death is quite scary too! I can appreciate why some passengers are tempted to take their stuff. I feel *certain* that no airline will look more favourably on any passenger who altruistically abandoned their stuff, against another passenger who is fully equipped with their critical kit.
It is the old "tragedy of the commons". It will make *no* practical difference to *me* if I take my stuff so I may as well. Of course if 199 other people take their stuff and I have to wait behind them then it *will* make a difference to me, however I cannot do anything about them so I may as well look after No. 1.
Perhaps the airlines should advise passengers to ensure that they have such items in a moneybelt or similar? The prospect of being trapped in an airport in some random country, without any resouces at all, at some random time of the day or night, without any clue as to what help might be offered is quite scary to me. Of course death is quite scary too! I can appreciate why some passengers are tempted to take their stuff. I feel *certain* that no airline will look more favourably on any passenger who altruistically abandoned their stuff, against another passenger who is fully equipped with their critical kit.
It is the old "tragedy of the commons". It will make *no* practical difference to *me* if I take my stuff so I may as well. Of course if 199 other people take their stuff and I have to wait behind them then it *will* make a difference to me, however I cannot do anything about them so I may as well look after No. 1.
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Like I wrote on the other evac thread, an advertised $10K penalty for carrying a hand carry item down an evac slide would give perspective of value.
In a panic evac, things can get snagged in doorways, etc., wasting precious seconds.
GB
In a panic evac, things can get snagged in doorways, etc., wasting precious seconds.
GB