BA seeks volunteers for unpaid leave/work
Usual disclaimers apply!
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: EGGW
Posts: 843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..........pilots will be eligible to receive BA shares worth 13 million pounds in 2011, which they must hold for three years before selling.
TURIN...get on wiki and amend it......I've just been wandering around TBJ/TBK looking for these elusive 'component and engine workshops'.
gas path,
The pilots are not getting a big handout of shares in 2011 unless some very stringent criteria are met. If profits are not good enough, NO shares will be available! Simple!
And the deal was negotiated by giving up, amongst other things, some basic pay, some allowances and incorporating some redundancies. Are you willing to do the same?
The pilots are not getting a big handout of shares in 2011 unless some very stringent criteria are met. If profits are not good enough, NO shares will be available! Simple!
And the deal was negotiated by giving up, amongst other things, some basic pay, some allowances and incorporating some redundancies. Are you willing to do the same?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And to be sure, Pilots deal will prob include, should any other section agree a better deal in anyway, Pilots deal will match or better it.
We all need to remember, flying staff who are in APS/NAPS(pensions) are on a better deal than ground staff, so the flying staff could be more proactive in changes because they will be playing the long game and looking after their pensions.
Back in April 2007, the company failed to make the pensions fair and did not adopt the average earnings pension plan, now the company has loads of different staff with different pension plans/standards, this was always going to cause more problems in the future.
.
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post3068554
.
Lets wake up and enjoy the coffee !!!!!!!!
We all need to remember, flying staff who are in APS/NAPS(pensions) are on a better deal than ground staff, so the flying staff could be more proactive in changes because they will be playing the long game and looking after their pensions.
Back in April 2007, the company failed to make the pensions fair and did not adopt the average earnings pension plan, now the company has loads of different staff with different pension plans/standards, this was always going to cause more problems in the future.
.
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post3068554
.
Lets wake up and enjoy the coffee !!!!!!!!
Usual disclaimers apply!
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: EGGW
Posts: 843
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually had a pension brief yesterday. Anybody who thinks the APS is doing ok..Think again! Lots of people drawing benefit, not many paying in, poor investments, plus that thieving basteward of a government and it's now in deep sh1t.
Oh! and the goverments PPF or whatever they call it does NOT have enough funding to support it or any other fund!
Oh! and the goverments PPF or whatever they call it does NOT have enough funding to support it or any other fund!
Peoples' Champion!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting piece in The Telegraph today
I fear Wee Willy Wonka's in great danger of turning us into a national laughing stock. . .
I fear Wee Willy Wonka's in great danger of turning us into a national laughing stock. . .
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edinburgh and 3C
Age: 72
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gas Paths words on his pension briefing echo my thoughts,
However as I understand it pensions in payment are ring fenced, ie money is earmarked outside the fund for retirees. However this does not apply to any future indexing.
So yes I expect even APS to be in deficit, but of course NPS must be in an even worse state. I believe this total deficit to be circa stg 3B.
However if BA does decide to close NAPS completely at least they start to crystalise the loss and please the city. This may? allow them to borrow their way out of this crisis.
They are still liable for outstanding pension debts but this could be spread over many years, (approx 50% in years of the last claimant)
However if they go bankrupt, this will allow them to escape this committment, as the government pension protection kicks in, This does have an upper limit stg 29K I think & indexation of 2.5% max
As I said earlier I don't think the goverment scheme has enough funding.
However as I understand it pensions in payment are ring fenced, ie money is earmarked outside the fund for retirees. However this does not apply to any future indexing.
So yes I expect even APS to be in deficit, but of course NPS must be in an even worse state. I believe this total deficit to be circa stg 3B.
However if BA does decide to close NAPS completely at least they start to crystalise the loss and please the city. This may? allow them to borrow their way out of this crisis.
They are still liable for outstanding pension debts but this could be spread over many years, (approx 50% in years of the last claimant)
However if they go bankrupt, this will allow them to escape this committment, as the government pension protection kicks in, This does have an upper limit stg 29K I think & indexation of 2.5% max
As I said earlier I don't think the goverment scheme has enough funding.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: southeast
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slight thread creep...I believe that a previous post suggested BA has two pension schemes - not correct. There are three: APS, NAPS and good old BARP(of which I'm a member). I must admit that when I hear (is this rumour only or is there any truth in these numbers?) of APS retirees (ex captains) enjoying 6 figure pensions I do feel somewhat green eyed when I look at what I'm likely to be surviving on down the line. I confess to knowing v little about pension fund mgmt but it strikes me as improbable to say the least that there is no connection between the generous retirement benefits available to APS members and the NAPS funding issues and poor level of benefits available in BARP.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BARP is a defined contribution scheme and apart from the agreed payments by BA into the scheme for each staff member there is no further liability.
Not the case with APS & NAPS which are defined benefit schemes. BA is the "lender of last resort" to these schemes and unfortunately has built up huge liabilities.
They have paid and are still paying huge sums to try to meet their obligations. Without these it is possible the stg 401M loss last year may not have occured.
Not the case with APS & NAPS which are defined benefit schemes. BA is the "lender of last resort" to these schemes and unfortunately has built up huge liabilities.
They have paid and are still paying huge sums to try to meet their obligations. Without these it is possible the stg 401M loss last year may not have occured.
Peoples' Champion!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thread creep indeed. The pension saga has already been done many times and there's already a BA pensions thread running over in T & E.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Now this is a totally silly attempt at purile humour 
If younger BA employees are worried about older, higher seniority crew taking all the remaining dosh in NAPS, why not shoot them?
All you need is a volunteer and the rest will reap the benefit.
Wot's more, all their long suffering wives and girl friends will applaud the sacrifice whilst wearing their sexiest black funeral number
It's a win win situation unless you're 56 and above 300 on the list!
No Wi;;y, it's a joke
Sir George Cayley
If younger BA employees are worried about older, higher seniority crew taking all the remaining dosh in NAPS, why not shoot them?
All you need is a volunteer and the rest will reap the benefit.
Wot's more, all their long suffering wives and girl friends will applaud the sacrifice whilst wearing their sexiest black funeral number
It's a win win situation unless you're 56 and above 300 on the list!
No Wi;;y, it's a joke
Sir George Cayley
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little history on the pensions.
1983ish, APS shut to new staff, the best pension plan. NAPS for new staff.
2003ish, NAPS shut to new staff, a good Pension plan. BARP for new staff.
BARP is the poor relation.
2007, APS and NAPS watered down to save money, BARP got a slight improvement I think may be, at this time Flying staff got a 17.55/19%increase to pay for pen purposes because their unions done a great job, think BALPA made the play and the CC unions took the same offer.
So now various staff on various pension deals, all pulling in different directions for their own ends, this will cause more and more trouble as time passes by, will only be sorted when APS and NAPS shut and all staff placed into BARP, however when this occours, BARP staff will want all new members of BARP to be given a lesser deal, may be BARP2, because this is how BARP staff have been treated till now ???
1983ish, APS shut to new staff, the best pension plan. NAPS for new staff.
2003ish, NAPS shut to new staff, a good Pension plan. BARP for new staff.
BARP is the poor relation.
2007, APS and NAPS watered down to save money, BARP got a slight improvement I think may be, at this time Flying staff got a 17.55/19%increase to pay for pen purposes because their unions done a great job, think BALPA made the play and the CC unions took the same offer.
So now various staff on various pension deals, all pulling in different directions for their own ends, this will cause more and more trouble as time passes by, will only be sorted when APS and NAPS shut and all staff placed into BARP, however when this occours, BARP staff will want all new members of BARP to be given a lesser deal, may be BARP2, because this is how BARP staff have been treated till now ???
However if they go bankrupt, this will allow them to escape this committment, as the government pension protection kicks in
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: manchester
Age: 75
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
just a thought
remember the regions?we had no option just got rid of without a mention even senior management in lhr phoned to ask could we spare any staff to help in t5 6 months after we were exterminated/just think!!
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Southern Sun
Posts: 417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check with the Pilots and Staff of United Airlines on how well their staff ownership scheme went!
Also, ask the United Pilots about their Pension Scheme?
DK
Last edited by Dark Knight; 22nd Jun 2009 at 01:34.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forecast: Nature will take its course and BA will be sold within 36 months. There shall be much lobbying and weeping in dark places. The government will allow market forces to prevail. Actuaries will look at the pension fund figures and the fund commitments and convert to money purchase for existing and future retirees. This shall be a pattern across many businesses. Public sector workers shall be next. There will be much gnashing of teeth and the enlightened shall not read architecture , instead accountancy.
The sins of the forefathers shall be visited on the children. Always did and always will. Here endeth the .....ramblings...or are they ?
Koi
The sins of the forefathers shall be visited on the children. Always did and always will. Here endeth the .....ramblings...or are they ?
Koi