BA seeks volunteers for unpaid leave/work
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I present a more logical idea. Pilots need full pay, since they do the real work of command and flying aircraft. Engineers, cc, ground staff and anyone who actually does the real safety work also need full pay. 
On the other hand, executives, public relations, and others who only attend meetings and sip their lattes, and who actually do "no-actual-work", should do their "no-actual-work" for no pay.
You make a very good point there.
On the salary issue, I know a long haul BA capt that earns circa £165k, so that average may not be that wide of the mark. Depends how many are on that salary I guess.
On the other hand, executives, public relations, and others who only attend meetings and sip their lattes, and who actually do "no-actual-work", should do their "no-actual-work" for no pay.
You make a very good point there.
On the salary issue, I know a long haul BA capt that earns circa £165k, so that average may not be that wide of the mark. Depends how many are on that salary I guess.
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Working for free
To a certain degree I do agree with betpumb5 about sticking together during these hard times but I wonder if BA would return a favour when they are generating millions of pounds profit??...
It seems that your expected to help them when they are down but previously when they were raking it in I don’t remember hearing of any profit related/loyalty bonuses being given to the staff…
Its a two way street and I hope that the staff are rewarded at a later date if any sacrifices are made by the employees..
Eagle jet will be on there case next..
It seems that your expected to help them when they are down but previously when they were raking it in I don’t remember hearing of any profit related/loyalty bonuses being given to the staff…
Its a two way street and I hope that the staff are rewarded at a later date if any sacrifices are made by the employees..
Eagle jet will be on there case next..
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So Willy will give up one months wage and manage on £671,000 this year. Is that not the problem? At the other end of the scale the lower earners only earn enough to pay their bills, and one months loss would take them into the red. However I'm sure Willy will not be in the red losing one months pay. He should reduce his pay until it hurts as much for him as the lower paid in BA. Lead from the front.
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Bronx
Thanks for the copy/paste. Yes I would rather take a weeks' "unpaid leave" for any employer if it meant saving my job, who wouldn't. I am more than used to working for free in this industry anyway!!! But can't you see the desperation in all of this?
I did not expect, at my stage of life, to find myself out of work and unable to find anything. It has now got to an unbearable stage now with no help from the state at all. Yet there is still no light in the tunnel. On the contrary, when a world player like BA is expecting, (asking) all it's employees to work for free to save the company that shows the extent of the situation. I don't think for one moment that BA is the only airline in this state. They all must be!
And realistically, asuming every worker agrees to this, it will save BA one months' wages bill. Will that turn them around or change the situation. Unlikely. It only buys them time assuming that the market will change, but will it? I cannot foresee any "quick fix."
Moreover, I see a very slow clawback to some degree of normality over many years. There will be a great deal of losers during this time and I find it incredulous to think that BA may be one of them.The world has changed and will never return to the way it was 2 years ago.
On a personal level, I have to consider where I go from here. I have NEVER seen such a situation where there are simply NO JOBS. Anywhere. Yet that is what I have seen for nearly 12 months now. How many others are experiencing the same? I know of a few so I know I am not alone. Now I am faced with ratings expiring to add to the my predicament. It is really not nice.
This whole industry needs to be re-jigged. It is a multi-billion dollar industry earning, (in good times) miniscule profits even with extended working hours, subsidised training, etc. yet within months of a downturn finds itself crumbling at the knees! That shows the fragility of it all.
The world is evolving, (morphing) into something else and for many people these are life changing times!
Thanks for the copy/paste. Yes I would rather take a weeks' "unpaid leave" for any employer if it meant saving my job, who wouldn't. I am more than used to working for free in this industry anyway!!! But can't you see the desperation in all of this?
I did not expect, at my stage of life, to find myself out of work and unable to find anything. It has now got to an unbearable stage now with no help from the state at all. Yet there is still no light in the tunnel. On the contrary, when a world player like BA is expecting, (asking) all it's employees to work for free to save the company that shows the extent of the situation. I don't think for one moment that BA is the only airline in this state. They all must be!
And realistically, asuming every worker agrees to this, it will save BA one months' wages bill. Will that turn them around or change the situation. Unlikely. It only buys them time assuming that the market will change, but will it? I cannot foresee any "quick fix."
Moreover, I see a very slow clawback to some degree of normality over many years. There will be a great deal of losers during this time and I find it incredulous to think that BA may be one of them.The world has changed and will never return to the way it was 2 years ago.
On a personal level, I have to consider where I go from here. I have NEVER seen such a situation where there are simply NO JOBS. Anywhere. Yet that is what I have seen for nearly 12 months now. How many others are experiencing the same? I know of a few so I know I am not alone. Now I am faced with ratings expiring to add to the my predicament. It is really not nice.
This whole industry needs to be re-jigged. It is a multi-billion dollar industry earning, (in good times) miniscule profits even with extended working hours, subsidised training, etc. yet within months of a downturn finds itself crumbling at the knees! That shows the fragility of it all.
The world is evolving, (morphing) into something else and for many people these are life changing times!
I remember the head of the United Auto Workers Union telling the General Motors workers that "Even if we worked for free, it wouldn't be enough" such was the state of the company.
Prehaps the Singapore Airlines system of a variable component to salary, depending on profits or lack of is the answer. Even they are having to look at compulsory unpaid leave.
The high pay, final salary pensions and union practices are nice to have IF they can be sustained. Obviously at the moment they can't and some serious restructuring to suit a changed market is in order if they are to avoid going under like Sabena, Swiss Air, Pan Am, Braniff, Eastern, Ansett etc etc
I'm sure the staff don't want to see BA sold to Ryan Air for a pound and have to deal with MOL.
Prehaps the Singapore Airlines system of a variable component to salary, depending on profits or lack of is the answer. Even they are having to look at compulsory unpaid leave.
The high pay, final salary pensions and union practices are nice to have IF they can be sustained. Obviously at the moment they can't and some serious restructuring to suit a changed market is in order if they are to avoid going under like Sabena, Swiss Air, Pan Am, Braniff, Eastern, Ansett etc etc
I'm sure the staff don't want to see BA sold to Ryan Air for a pound and have to deal with MOL.
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We had an opt in pay cut after 9-11 (after the comapny tried to enforce a pay cut, fortunately Balpa put an end to this).
When the company was making money again, pay was re-instated, and any money that was given up was paid back (plus some on top, as a thankyou).
When the company was making money again, pay was re-instated, and any money that was given up was paid back (plus some on top, as a thankyou).
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Of course, none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the fact that we're still reeling from that fact that some numpty pen-pusher got us a $300,000,000 fine for cargo price fixing (plus a load of additional wonga for legal costs)?
Flying MAN-SYD-MAN departing 12/1/10, return 7/2/10
Business class BA £3373.60, Emirates £1917.10 = +75.97%
Economy class BA £1312.70 AF £829.00 = +53.35%
It is no wonder that BA are loosing customers. Why should customers pay so much for tickets with an airline that may not be around in 2010?
Business class BA £3373.60, Emirates £1917.10 = +75.97%
Economy class BA £1312.70 AF £829.00 = +53.35%
It is no wonder that BA are loosing customers. Why should customers pay so much for tickets with an airline that may not be around in 2010?
Last edited by 10002level; 17th Jun 2009 at 09:38.
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On the salary issue, I know a long haul BA capt that earns circa £165k
In other words, 6 months of his 12 months income goes straight to the government in tax.
Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 17th Jun 2009 at 09:47. Reason: finger error
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Some relatives who have just flown BA this week couldn't have been more impressed.
Flights on time both way.No hassle check in and bags in the baggage hall before they got there.
There both well travelled and said T5 beats hands down their previous travels through T3/4 and quite a few far east airports.
Accepted BA needs to get its pricing right as EK and the others can offer a better deal,but it need to get its cost base right to match the current economic climate. The product is still
at the top end of the market.
With change, the airline will be around in 2010 and for many years to come.
Flights on time both way.No hassle check in and bags in the baggage hall before they got there.
There both well travelled and said T5 beats hands down their previous travels through T3/4 and quite a few far east airports.
Accepted BA needs to get its pricing right as EK and the others can offer a better deal,but it need to get its cost base right to match the current economic climate. The product is still
at the top end of the market.
With change, the airline will be around in 2010 and for many years to come.
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"i contest the word 'expect'.
actually b.a. are asking for volunteers - quite a difference - please get your facts right!"
The word volunteer has a slightly different meaning in BA, it refers to those who will be harrassed by their manager into doing what is required. I'm glad I'm out.
actually b.a. are asking for volunteers - quite a difference - please get your facts right!"
The word volunteer has a slightly different meaning in BA, it refers to those who will be harrassed by their manager into doing what is required. I'm glad I'm out.
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Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne
And if he is domiciled in the UK he is above the 150k PA tax band which leaves him paying 50% income tax.
In other words, 6 months of his 12 months income goes straight to the government in tax.
In other words, 6 months of his 12 months income goes straight to the government in tax.
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There was this Irishman who . . . .
Did you hear the one about the Irishman who wanted people to work for a month for nothing?
Why stop there Willie? You are not going far enough. In these difficult financial time, here are my suggestions for your consideration :-
1. Charge them for the privilege of coming into work.
2. Count off duty including weekends as part of staff’s leave.
3. Determine the staff who have contributed and sacrificed most for the company, and then $hit on them from the highest height, after all, they’re soft targets. This is not difficult to do as BA has accrued much experience of this in the past and have it down to a fine art.
4. Determine the staff who are most in financial dept – usually the lowest paid. Keep them as the low paid as they then are the ones least likely to rock the boat. Threaten them with a pay cut. No-one will rock the boat and support them. Pile the $hit onto them from the highest height. They are also soft targets.
5. Instead of using the savings to bolster the business, use it to bolster top level bonuses.
6. Include everyone. Don’t exclude the suppliers. Ask the suppliers - fuel, spares, catering, logistics, baggage handlers etc - to also supply for a month without charge. It’s in their interest too to keep the business going. I’m sure that they’ll offer an honest opinion.
Why stop there Willie? You are not going far enough. In these difficult financial time, here are my suggestions for your consideration :-
1. Charge them for the privilege of coming into work.
2. Count off duty including weekends as part of staff’s leave.
3. Determine the staff who have contributed and sacrificed most for the company, and then $hit on them from the highest height, after all, they’re soft targets. This is not difficult to do as BA has accrued much experience of this in the past and have it down to a fine art.
4. Determine the staff who are most in financial dept – usually the lowest paid. Keep them as the low paid as they then are the ones least likely to rock the boat. Threaten them with a pay cut. No-one will rock the boat and support them. Pile the $hit onto them from the highest height. They are also soft targets.
5. Instead of using the savings to bolster the business, use it to bolster top level bonuses.
6. Include everyone. Don’t exclude the suppliers. Ask the suppliers - fuel, spares, catering, logistics, baggage handlers etc - to also supply for a month without charge. It’s in their interest too to keep the business going. I’m sure that they’ll offer an honest opinion.
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I'm amazed that no-one has mentioned BA's bloated and overpaid management structure as being a source of huge economies. At the top you have Mr Walsh, of course, who could be replaced with someone of equal or better competence and willing to work on, say £150K instead of 11/12ths of the obscene unearned salary that Walsh gets for driving BA into the ground. Don't forget his pension, share options etc etc.
If anyone doubts that BA could reduce staff in the administrative, HR, finance and marketing departments by 75% without noticing the difference, closing down vast offices at the same time (Waterworld for a start), and then pay the remainder 60% of what they get now without losing a single person of value, they need only take a trip to the White House to see how it can be done.
But that's never going to happen. BA is saddled with this huge, cumbersome and expensive bureaucracy, and in the traditional way the ONLY way it can get rid of it is the bankruptcy that it eventually causes.
Incidentally, get this, found on the web....
The corporate headquarters of British Airways, Waterside incorporates an internal street that creates an active social hub for employees and visitors. Designed by Niels Torp.
That roughly translates as "we are off with the fairies in our own little well-cushioned world, as we interact socially, being very nice to each other, getting this diversity thingy right, and so on, instead of doing anything productive." I bet all the senior managers have PAs to nursemaid them.
Ask Ryanair what they think of an Active Social Hub instead of a Head Office. And of "PA"s.
If Willy was worth 1/20th of his salary, he would have closed Waterside down and sacked the lot of them on Day 2 of his employment.
But he is not, and he did not.
And then there's the unbelievably inefficient BA maintenance monster, spread around the UK, wasting money. But let's deal with the unneeded administrators first. At least maintenance has a business purpose that the bureaucrats do not have.
If anyone doubts that BA could reduce staff in the administrative, HR, finance and marketing departments by 75% without noticing the difference, closing down vast offices at the same time (Waterworld for a start), and then pay the remainder 60% of what they get now without losing a single person of value, they need only take a trip to the White House to see how it can be done.
But that's never going to happen. BA is saddled with this huge, cumbersome and expensive bureaucracy, and in the traditional way the ONLY way it can get rid of it is the bankruptcy that it eventually causes.
Incidentally, get this, found on the web....
The corporate headquarters of British Airways, Waterside incorporates an internal street that creates an active social hub for employees and visitors. Designed by Niels Torp.
That roughly translates as "we are off with the fairies in our own little well-cushioned world, as we interact socially, being very nice to each other, getting this diversity thingy right, and so on, instead of doing anything productive." I bet all the senior managers have PAs to nursemaid them.
Ask Ryanair what they think of an Active Social Hub instead of a Head Office. And of "PA"s.
If Willy was worth 1/20th of his salary, he would have closed Waterside down and sacked the lot of them on Day 2 of his employment.
But he is not, and he did not.
And then there's the unbelievably inefficient BA maintenance monster, spread around the UK, wasting money. But let's deal with the unneeded administrators first. At least maintenance has a business purpose that the bureaucrats do not have.
The corporate headquarters of British Airways, Waterside incorporates an internal street that creates an active social hub for employees and visitors. Designed by Niels Torp.
Wasn't it one of Ayling's daft schemes?
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On the salary issue, I know a long haul BA capt that earns circa £165k, so that average may not be that wide of the mark. Depends how many are on that salary I guess.
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I don't blame WW for creating it; I do blame him for not closing it down decisively and quickly, and getting rid of its denizens at the same time. The cost of not doing that far outweighs the cost of doing it.
Here's another description, which emphasises the priority of Waterspout being a Leisure Centre rather than a place of, dare I mention it, "work"....
This seminal development comprises six discrete office buildings linked by a covered street plus restaurant, training, auditorium and gym facilities.
Here's another description, which emphasises the priority of Waterspout being a Leisure Centre rather than a place of, dare I mention it, "work"....
This seminal development comprises six discrete office buildings linked by a covered street plus restaurant, training, auditorium and gym facilities.
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I love the way people jump onto a web site and get a snap of fares then trumpet them as being despicably expensive!
As with any carrier, dependant upon the load, the forward booking advance time and the time of year then the prices change. Blocks of seats are allocated specific booking prices dependant upon how far in advance of the flight date they are booked. The increase of fares is generally symptomatic of the fact that the 'cheaper' seats are all booked and no longer available with that carrier. That may not be the case with another carrier who still might have discounted seats available dependent upon their costing structure.
Never snapshot prices! Have a look at the LoCo's and then try and see if you can still get that £0.99 seat the day before you want to travel. Simple answer, not a hope.
As with any carrier, dependant upon the load, the forward booking advance time and the time of year then the prices change. Blocks of seats are allocated specific booking prices dependant upon how far in advance of the flight date they are booked. The increase of fares is generally symptomatic of the fact that the 'cheaper' seats are all booked and no longer available with that carrier. That may not be the case with another carrier who still might have discounted seats available dependent upon their costing structure.
Never snapshot prices! Have a look at the LoCo's and then try and see if you can still get that £0.99 seat the day before you want to travel. Simple answer, not a hope.