Turkish airliner crashes at Schiphol
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SPECULATION (for the PPL'ers):
An eyewitness who was one of the first to assist survivors noticed oxygen masks were deployed in the cabin? Maybe rapid decompression at 200'?
Maybe some of the spark plugs were dirty and not all cylinders were firing, just I once had on my 172?
As there was a check captain on board and cloud base at 800', maybe they were practicing a precautionary with low level circuit and short and soft field landing? I had to do that once too...
An eyewitness who was one of the first to assist survivors noticed oxygen masks were deployed in the cabin? Maybe rapid decompression at 200'?
Maybe some of the spark plugs were dirty and not all cylinders were firing, just I once had on my 172?
As there was a check captain on board and cloud base at 800', maybe they were practicing a precautionary with low level circuit and short and soft field landing? I had to do that once too...
No sense in speculating on survivability based on surrounding aircraft structure.
Soft strutures often intrude on interior space while strong (hard) structures often transmit G loads sufficient to cause internal injuries. The best that can be done is to keep most seats attached to the floor up to a limit.
In the end the investigation will also consider the specific survivability factors in this accident based on associated facts.
Soft strutures often intrude on interior space while strong (hard) structures often transmit G loads sufficient to cause internal injuries. The best that can be done is to keep most seats attached to the floor up to a limit.
In the end the investigation will also consider the specific survivability factors in this accident based on associated facts.
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Dutch media: Moving bodies just not an option
Dutch media quotes two Dutch Transport Safety Investigation Board officials with different but not conflicting information as to why the crew's bodies haven't been removed yet.
One says that officials will conduct some "investigative work" first (keep the "scene" sterile, if you will), the other implies that the cockpit has been severely damaged as he says the cockpit area will have to be taken apart in order to remove the bodies.
One says that officials will conduct some "investigative work" first (keep the "scene" sterile, if you will), the other implies that the cockpit has been severely damaged as he says the cockpit area will have to be taken apart in order to remove the bodies.
Last edited by gtf; 25th Feb 2009 at 18:26.
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ManaAdaSystem -
I guess you've seen and heard the recorders already then, right?
I can see it being the Line Captain getting his 25 observed hours in. I can see it a Co-Pilot getting checked. I can see it the Line Captain getting a route check or line check. Maybe it was just a Jujmp Seat rider who wanted to observe. Maybe it was the equivilent of an Air Carrier Inspector. Any number of possibilities for that third person.
One captain and two copilots. I put my money on this being a training flight with a new F/O.
I can see it being the Line Captain getting his 25 observed hours in. I can see it a Co-Pilot getting checked. I can see it the Line Captain getting a route check or line check. Maybe it was just a Jujmp Seat rider who wanted to observe. Maybe it was the equivilent of an Air Carrier Inspector. Any number of possibilities for that third person.
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Minor point. An early BBC graphic showing the crash site used an old aerial photo and didn't have 18R; this suggested erroneously that the aircraft crashed a long way from any runway. I e-mailed them pointing out that they were using an old image. They subsequently corrected by crudely adding a runway but unfortunately annotated 18R at the southern end (ie what we would call 36L). But at least, they reacted to my note.
Jack
Jack
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News in TV, stated that a few minutes prior, a 757 landed. Taking in account that wakes from this type are sometimes, terrifying, we may consider that this may be one factor, of what had happened.
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Danny and other moderators,
I know we live in what is claimed to be a democracy but I firmly believe some of the posts on this thread are inappropriate at best and those posting should be sanctioned. Every single recent accident thread I've read on PPRuNe degenerates into slagging better suited to Jetblast.
Disgraceful.
I know we live in what is claimed to be a democracy but I firmly believe some of the posts on this thread are inappropriate at best and those posting should be sanctioned. Every single recent accident thread I've read on PPRuNe degenerates into slagging better suited to Jetblast.
Disgraceful.
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Suggestion for RIPpers
condolances and other expressions of grief related to this crash can be posted on Condoleance.nl
...Can't we just colour-code or mark the postings to separate the wannabe's from the dunnits? This way those in the know can ignore the armchair warriors
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qualifications to post
Surely on day one of an event like this, even a Professional Pilot knows no more facts about what happened than an armchair wannabe surely. There is only speculation and rumour at this point in an accident. If you aren't interested in reading all the dross, keep away form the forum until there is an official report with facts.
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As good as color coding or whatever sounds.... who is going to administrate it? are you going to send copies of your licences in for us to verify? I don't think so. The mods on this site are volunteers doing this in their spare time. This subject comes up from time to time, there really isn't any sensible solution as far as I know.
I am not a pilot. I could say I was; who would know any different?
I am not a pilot. I could say I was; who would know any different?
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What Twitcher states is true. We're all spectulating at this point, regardless of our experiences. The colour coding of posts would be a good idea. Working with vBulletin on a regular basis, I know that you could also create a seperate group of users which can post but are subject to moderation prior to going "LIVE" on the board. This will also work well if an Amateur comes up with a constructive post, it can still be added to the topic at hand whilst the trash is removed before it is even displayed.
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la2uk
It is well known within the aviation community, that following a B752 is very similar to following a heavier aircraft; so, the weight disparity is misleading!
wake turbulence
I could understand this post if it were an A319 following at B777 heavy, but a 738 and 752 are about 20,000kgs different in the max landing wt. With correct separation it is not an issue.
The post I read that mentioned this also went on to say that it could not be confirmed if the preceding 752 was on the same approach / rwy as the 738 and so is pure conjecture
I could understand this post if it were an A319 following at B777 heavy, but a 738 and 752 are about 20,000kgs different in the max landing wt. With correct separation it is not an issue.
The post I read that mentioned this also went on to say that it could not be confirmed if the preceding 752 was on the same approach / rwy as the 738 and so is pure conjecture
More than just an ATCO
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Re birdstrike.
Schiphol is built on the site of an old mooring place for sailing ships waiting for wind and tide to ennter the port of Amsterdam. It is still surrounded by water - the Ringvaart - and there are a large number of areas where birds, including storks and cranes IIRC, can nest and breed in the area
More on the subject here, unfortunately only in Dutch. There are even special tours in the area for birdwatchers.
Schiphol is built on the site of an old mooring place for sailing ships waiting for wind and tide to ennter the port of Amsterdam. It is still surrounded by water - the Ringvaart - and there are a large number of areas where birds, including storks and cranes IIRC, can nest and breed in the area
More on the subject here, unfortunately only in Dutch. There are even special tours in the area for birdwatchers.
Last edited by Lon More; 25th Feb 2009 at 19:06.
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Big Birds in the vicinity of 18R this morning
Hi Guys,
Yours truly flew into AMS on RWY 18R this morning at approx 1 hour before the crash and was airborn from RWY 24 at 0900z.
During the final approach we encountered a small flock of VERY big birds that were roaming around 500'. We nearly hit one on the left side.
I was landing and had not to much eye for the birds but my F\O noticed them being big and Goose sized.
Not trying to lead on about probable causes for that very unfortunate Turkish crew but thought it was worth while mentioning.
Regards
Yours truly flew into AMS on RWY 18R this morning at approx 1 hour before the crash and was airborn from RWY 24 at 0900z.
During the final approach we encountered a small flock of VERY big birds that were roaming around 500'. We nearly hit one on the left side.
I was landing and had not to much eye for the birds but my F\O noticed them being big and Goose sized.
Not trying to lead on about probable causes for that very unfortunate Turkish crew but thought it was worth while mentioning.
Regards
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Rainbow - Soldiers are prepared to become a statistic...Passengers are not...even pilots...
People who die in a civilian matter can die of things such as...smoking and ignoring the doctors warngings...but this aircraft accident happened and passengers could not control this...
People who die in a civilian matter can die of things such as...smoking and ignoring the doctors warngings...but this aircraft accident happened and passengers could not control this...