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Ryanair incident Ciampino.

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Ryanair incident Ciampino.

Old 10th Nov 2008, 15:22
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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I am a 737 Pilot (LOL as requested) This pitch thing-- load of crap trust me it is not something you want to be doing and as one person asked stay stablized or pitch i can assure you it would always be stay stablized for me. If you pitched up in a 737 to avoid a bird that moment of pitch change could effect your landing distance by at a guess 200-300 yards not something you want even if you have loads of rnw to play with. You don't mess with that much momentum and that many lives.

PS no reflection on what the crew may or may not have done all seam to have walked away so good job!
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 15:27
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The DV window is opened to depressurise the aircraft quickly to ensure all exits will open during evacuation. Isnt this ryanair evacuation checklist?
Wouldn't have thought so, if the aircraft is still pressurised you'll struggle to open the DV window - it's a plug type!
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 15:35
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This is a ridiculous argument. By the time you see birds in a large aeroplane it is too late to do anything about it. The control responses available to you are simply ineffective.

Having hit many a bird in my long flying career (including a sea eagle with a 7 foot wing span in the Middle East) you really can only hope that the bird takes appropriate avoiding action.

I know that I have mentioned this once before on pprune but my most unusual bird strike was at 19000 ft in the descent over Germany at night whilst between cloud layers (8/8ths above and 8/8ths below).

Makes you wonder how said bird was navigating!
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 15:41
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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The procedure to depressurise in case of evacuation is for the F/O to set the pressurisation mode selector to "Manual" and then manually open the outflow valve.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 15:49
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@bizzy liz

Some stuff about russian jet intakes. Not much.

Mig-29 Air Intake Question. — Military Forum | Airliners.net

These are supersonic jets anyway, completely different design so I suppose there would be no use in commercial aviation...
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 15:58
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The last time I took evasive action on final approach in order to avoid birds, was into FCO. If you can't see seagull sized birds in daytime CAVOK, then maybe it's time to check your eyesight? (not meant for the RYR crew, but as a general comment to JW 411).
Rome is BAD when it comes to birds (and most other things as well, but that's a different discussion).
The only other airport I've seen 100's, if not 1000's of birds, is PMI.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 15:59
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I suppose a bird strike is unavoidable. I wonder if the current ultrasonic sounds devices are not effective for big flocks. I donīt know what kind of aids in this aspect does CIA have?. If itīs particularly conflictive in some seasons, there should be any measure. Any idea if Fiumicimo is better prepared for that?.

Congratulations to the crew and passengers. Today is a good day for aviation.

Last edited by keltic; 10th Nov 2008 at 16:12.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:05
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737 pilot (10 years). Standard procedure is to open the DV window to ensure aircraft is completely depressurised in an emergency situation. You can override slight depressurisation to allow the much larger door to be moved and opened by the cabin crew. This would be done in a reject take-off when the fuselage would be lightly pressurised, or on landing in an emergency situation. The fuselage would be pressurised at 0.18 psi, or about 100' below airport altitude, so overriding it is possible.

Might I suggest those that don't know don't answer!
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:06
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nice job by the crew once again and all respect to them.pity their mongrel ceo and management would not afford them the same respect and admiration.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:08
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Looks like a good job, I lost count of the number of birds that they hit in the photo!
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:09
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Rainboe. I'm sure you're right. But that is not the Ryanair procedure.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:11
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"737 pilot (10 years). Standard procedure is to open the DV window to ensure aircraft is completely depressurised in an emergency situation. You can override slight depressurisation to allow the much larger door to be moved and opened by the cabin crew. This would be done in a reject take-off when the fuselage would be lightly pressurised, or on landing in an emergency situation. The fuselage would be pressurised at 0.18 psi, or about 100' below airport altitude, so overriding it is possible.

Might I suggest those that don't know don't answer!"


There's no mention of it in the RYR evacuation checklist, even though it could help.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:15
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Rainboe

Standard procedure for who? Not in any of the airlines I've worked for, that's for sure. So if you don't talk for all of us, please say so.

It will be intersting to know what kind of infromation they got before they started the approach. Of course we can avoid birdstrikes if the correct information is given from ATC, simply delay the approach, or divert.
Question is, would you as the captain do it?

I do recall the Alitalia emergency landing (Cagliari) after ATC closed the airport due to birds.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:18
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NG DV windows are very good, the windows on the Classic on the other hand have a habit of being extremely difficult to open/jamming. I would open the window ASAP whether I needed to use it or not. Normal procedure is to exit via main doors if possible.

If you have to get out in a hurry and other exits are blocked, it is not a good time to find it won't open.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:21
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As requested: I am a 737 pilot.
To answer a few questions/clear a few things up...
Why would you go around from a bird strike/engine failure on finals? Possibly because it has significantly destabilised you. Engine failure on finals isn't something that we practice all that often, assuming you're expecting the other engine to keep turning, a go around is sometimes the safer option instead of trying to balance the yaw on the rudder, retract the flaps to 15, get the right speed and hit the flap inhibit switch, all while trying to stay on the glide & localiser. Single engine go arounds and planned single engine approaches are practiced every 6 months in the sim, so sometimes the safest option is to put yourself in a 'known' situation and go around

As for opening the window to depressurise the aircraft in the event of an evac...yes this can be done, regardless of the fact it's a 'plug'
That's the procedure we (not Ryanair) use on an RTO anyway, open the DV window - which has a much smaller surface area and therefore is much easier to open than a main door in the cabin. At the stage where you're opening these windows, the differential pressure is only minimal anyway, so although it may be tough to open the window, it can be done and then makes the main doors & overwings open normally
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:21
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If (and I am postulating from the picture alone so I caveat this statement heavily) the left engine pod had been in contact with the ground on the roll out it would produce a left yaw
This is wrong. The friction force acting on the engine will be much LESS than that exerted on tyres. So, there will be a danger of the a/c slewing to the RIGHT if the pilot stamps on the brakes too hard. Well done flight crew for keeping it straight, on the runway, and stopping in time. That will have required a cool head and a light foot.
Btw I'm not a pilot.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:22
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Birds and aircraft

I'm only SLF, and a Birder. For what it is worth I remember flying out of Ciampino on Ryanair last winter. After take off power was reduced (noise regs as we flew over the city) We could'nt have been higher than appx 1000mts when I saw a Yellow-Legged Gull pass under the aircraft only 100mts distant, I commented to my partner how close it was, and how it would'nt be nice to hit one- as they weigh about a kilo.
Sounds like good airmanship to me.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:24
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I can only claim a little over half of Rainboe's 737 experience. But I always understood the bit in the evacuation checklist (previously memory items) about pressurisation mode selector to manual and outflow valve open was the way to depressurise. You learn something new every day. Anyway well done to all. Also nice to see low cost airlines being recognised as having good operating/safety standards.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:25
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Rainboe - thank you for backing up my point that DV can be used for depress on evacuation.
Although we are now clear ryanair dont use it.

Re-Heat; rack off and check your facts next time!

And, to the joker who still thinks you can dodge a bird on finals in a jet transport. give up. its reckless and crazy idea.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 16:28
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Not a joke. I've done it.
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