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Ryanair incident Ciampino.

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Ryanair incident Ciampino.

Old 10th Nov 2008, 18:29
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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..pprune at its' worst...so much speculative crap.

The post, so far, that has nubbed the situation is that of HighLow's.

MOL, be thankful, be very thankful.

nurj
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 18:52
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Write off or not?

For those asking the question on if the a/c will be write off, l would say very unlikely.
The gear is behind the wing tanks and it would not be the tank that the gear has passed through, but more than likely a composite panel.
The rear spar of the main fuel tank/wing structure might be damaged depending on the landing gear beam and where the fittings to the spar sheared away.
Hope that helps with some of the questions.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 18:52
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Ryan air birdhit Rome

Gents: to get it clear
Greasecap JR was PF
Fatcts:
at 200 ft on short final at (100752LT nov) CIO a multple bird hit occurred on a RYR flight from Frankfurt Hahn to Rome Ciampino.
More than 200 birdhits were counted (afterwards)
Engine nr 1 stopped (no power)
TOGA initated by PF, captain took over and after (0,020sec) engine nr 2 stopped
Put him down on the runway (a bit hard as you can see)
However NO CASUALTIES at landing (7 persons were taken into hospital due to neck complaints)
Crew did a perfect job
No paint programs were used to modify the photo or any ropes were used to evacuate the crew the crew asked for stairs to evacuate the passengers
The slide and the doors were openend by the recue services (see photo)
hope this will clarify some things.
Grtsz
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:05
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Well done all! That could have ended very differently. Perhaps a good job number 2 engine didn't keep going a bit longer.

Last edited by cwatters; 10th Nov 2008 at 19:17.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:11
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Gooooood job

I know it`s easy to speculate but why to do GA at 200ft-engine failure.

(Speculating just to keep pprune alive)
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:13
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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I believe thats been answered.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...ml#post4521261
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:18
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Was in the car listening to Newstalk an Irish news station at noon, and who trumps up only aviation's expert the renowned David Learmount. Without boring you with the long details on Ryanair's training etc. he categorically blamed the crew stating that they had become fixated on the problem of the bird strike, and effectively forgot about the landing. I was fuming thinking this man got paid for such 'expert' rubbish, he needs muzzling!
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:21
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'TOGA initiated' , but did they get as far as 'positive climb - gear up' ?
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:24
  #129 (permalink)  
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Sounds like they tried a GA but were prevented by failure of the other engine. So a forced landing was req'd and performed quite well. Hats off to the crew.

I would just like to chuck in my tuppence worth though. It seems to me that a GA is the item of first resort to many crews these days. "If in doubt- GO AROUND!" is drummed into us as if executing a GA is going to cure all ills!

At 200' (and if I had the rwy in sight) I'd be having the AP off and thinking hard about if I could land the sucker. I'd try a GA if I thought I was going to crash.

Looks like these guys went for the GA straightaway only to find that- surprise! the birds were in the other engine too!

If they could see the runway- and I don't know if they could or not- why not land? Single eng GA after multiple birdstrike could be quite a risky option.

Glad it turned out well anyway and like all accidents we all learn another lesson here.

For nearly everything that 'happens' in the sim, a GA is the answer.

But in the real world?
 
Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:24
  #130 (permalink)  
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Go around decision with a snuffed out donc?

Looks like the MLG beam partially drove itself up thru the wing panel at its attach point to the rear spar. Hopefully the spar hole for the pin is ok.
 
Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:27
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>Looks like these guys went for the GA straightaway only to find that-
> surprise! the birds were in the other engine too!

Gosh that makes me mad. I'm only a glider pilot and even I know that if you get out of shape you GA. No doubt we will get the details in due course but it's not unknown for aircraft to GA even with both engines working.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:36
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Having flown 732s for a number of outfits, ( inc. RYR ), some recommended opening the DV as a quick way of depressurizing, others ( inc. RYR ) did not. However, it was always at the back of my mind that if I had had to land or RTO with an engine fire warning, it would be worth opening my DV window once the aircraft had come to a halt and the immediate actions had been done (or telling the F/O to open his ) as a quick way of seeing whether the fire was out or not. Certainly quicker than waiting for the tower or the crash crews to tell you.
Nice job guys.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:42
  #133 (permalink)  
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I am not a Ryanair 737 pilot (Thank you God)

But, my understanding is that their SOPs cover just about everything and that training ensures a high standard of adherence.

The posts so far seem to indicate that the crew followed SOPs until circumstances dictated some imaginative problem solving

What would all you Ex Spurts have done faced with a wall of feathers?

Medals all round, Hats in the air, wheres that little Irish twerp?

Sir George Cayley
 
Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:47
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Rainboe said

737 pilot (10 years). Standard procedure is to open the DV window to ensure aircraft is completely depressurised in an emergency situation. You can override slight depressurisation to allow the much larger door to be moved and opened by the cabin crew. This would be done in a reject take-off when the fuselage would be lightly pressurised, or on landing in an emergency situation. The fuselage would be pressurised at 0.18 psi, or about 100' below airport altitude, so overriding it is possible.

Might I suggest those that don't know don't answer!
Thanks for clearing that up I'll ignore your last sentence if you don't mind as this is discussion forum - for discussing things. That way we all learn something new

This is a case of assumption on my part - I've tried opening a DV window on a 757 with 0.5 psi in it and it was almost impossible. I just assumed it was the same on a 737 , shame on me
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:47
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it stopped just before the end with the added retardation of collapsed gear.
Could somebody put me right if I'm wrong, but all my physics training says that one collapsed main gear is a LOSS of retarding force. Additionally it's only on one side of the plane. How many tonnes hit the ground at what, 200 knots? And then the pilot brought it all to a stop in a straight line on the runway using only the braking force of the other main and the nosewheel.

If it had been sliding on its belly, it would have ended up in the arresting gear at the end of the runway. Probably with leaking fuel ignited by sparks! And if it had gone off the runway, it could have flipped and broken up.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 19:53
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There seems to be general assumption expressed here - amongst so much other complete BS and a little interesting information - that the left main gear has been punched up through the wing. So far the only source of this damage report seems to be the one photo from 3/4 front showing 'something' unusual on top of the port wing. Looking at that 'something' isn't it perhaps simply a deflated escape ramp from the open overwing exit there rather than top wing skin panelling burst open from below?

Speculation - I suppose - is unavoidable, but verdicts on good performance - moderate performance - all-round balls-up are plainly premature until hard facts are shared.

PS - I am not a pilot...but have been. Amongst other things I am a forensic investigator/researcher. And I am very aware of the pointlessness of jumping to conclusions...and the dangers (see Gulf War 2...)
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 20:04
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Mr Bamber
The MLG would have been pushed up due to a high ROD. Not from High Airspeed. It is unlikely that the airspeed was 200kts in a go around, with both engines having problems the airspeed would likely have been far far lower.
Hence the forward airspeed would have been a great deal lower. Therefore the braking would not have been as great as at 200kts.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 20:12
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There seems to be general assumption expressed here - amongst so much other complete BS and a little interesting information - that the left main gear has been punched up through the wing. So far the only source of this damage report seems to be the one photo from 3/4 front showing 'something' unusual on top of the port wing. Looking at that 'something' isn't it perhaps simply a deflated escape ramp from the open overwing exit there rather than top wing skin panelling burst open from below?
Except the 737 does not use escape slides. In an evacuation pax would slide down the flaps onto the ground.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 20:27
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Except the 737 does not use escape slides. In an evacuation pax would slide down the

Nope! The 737-800 has eight emergency exits: four over the wings, plus two fwd exits and two aft. The fwd and aft exits use inflatable slides; only the overwing exits use the flaps as "slides." The aircraft most certainly does have escape slides.
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Old 10th Nov 2008, 20:45
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If greasecap is for real and we have no reason to believe he isn't. Then the speculation needs to stop as presumably it came straight from the horse's mouth. It just goes to show how many people stick their two cents in without even reading what was said.

Gents: to get it clear
Greasecap JR was PF
Fatcts:
at 200 ft on short final at (100752LT nov) CIO a multple bird hit occurred on a RYR flight from Frankfurt Hahn to Rome Ciampino.
More than 200 birdhits were counted (afterwards)
Engine nr 1 stopped (no power)
TOGA initated by PF, captain took over and after (0,020sec) engine nr 2 stopped
Put him down on the runway (a bit hard as you can see)
However NO CASUALTIES at landing (7 persons were taken into hospital due to neck complaints)
Crew did a perfect job
No paint programs were used to modify the photo or any ropes were used to evacuate the crew the crew asked for stairs to evacuate the passengers
The slide and the doors were openend by the recue services (see photo)
hope this will clarify some things.
Grtsz
Greasecap senior
If true, then everyone came horrifyingly close to a fatal accident.
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