Aeroflot B737 Down near Perm
Join Date: Jan 2009
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The Russian about the pilots being drunk sound a bit too far stretched to digest....
With the pilots dead, Blaming the pilots is the easiest way top put the blame out of their backyard....
If that were the case what were the preflight med doctors doing ??
With the pilots dead, Blaming the pilots is the easiest way top put the blame out of their backyard....
If that were the case what were the preflight med doctors doing ??
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Disclaimer: I am a simple passer-by.
The AAIB report makes the most nightmarish reading I've had in a long time. The crew seemed to be barely in control of the aircraft from takeoff, never mind the landing. That's grim. Even setting aside the alcohol issue, the risk level was incredibly high given their inability to cope with normal operations for the type and their disengagement from SOP. I sincerely hope that those circumstances are rare in the aviation world.
The AAIB report makes the most nightmarish reading I've had in a long time. The crew seemed to be barely in control of the aircraft from takeoff, never mind the landing. That's grim. Even setting aside the alcohol issue, the risk level was incredibly high given their inability to cope with normal operations for the type and their disengagement from SOP. I sincerely hope that those circumstances are rare in the aviation world.
The AAIB report....
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Ethanol analysis
For those of you who are interested in the reliability of testing for ethanol in post mortems you should read this link .You can nget the short abstract version for free but for the full paper you have to register .It has a full section devoted to air accidents .Test results can be influenced by various factors so i think in relation to this incident you guys may find it interesting .There have been a number of air accidents that have involved diabetic hypo's and if you didnt know a person was having a hypo they would appear to be drunk ?
Taken from Forensic Science international .
Interpreting results of ethanol analysis in postmortem specimens
http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(06)00289-1/abstract
Taken from Forensic Science international .
Interpreting results of ethanol analysis in postmortem specimens
http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(06)00289-1/abstract
Join Date: Apr 2007
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fake
The radiointercept is 100% fake
extremely low experience on type ,N1 split, non-standard FPD (no FD),
IRS position shift (no TOGA - no threshold update )
and as a final point - state of a highest fatigue ( allmost no rest for 3 nights)
with the great violation of work and rest time, as admitted by official report
and after all just after release of official report, a week ago ( is that a conclusion?) local authorities allowed to increase annual flight hours
by 10% for cockpit crew...
Does this mean a Civil air transportation or Civil War?
P.S. My PA greetings sound completely drunk after 3 consequent nights.
extremely low experience on type ,N1 split, non-standard FPD (no FD),
IRS position shift (no TOGA - no threshold update )
and as a final point - state of a highest fatigue ( allmost no rest for 3 nights)
with the great violation of work and rest time, as admitted by official report
and after all just after release of official report, a week ago ( is that a conclusion?) local authorities allowed to increase annual flight hours
by 10% for cockpit crew...
Does this mean a Civil air transportation or Civil War?
P.S. My PA greetings sound completely drunk after 3 consequent nights.
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not a rare case
what the hell was the first officer ever doing near that flight deck if he wasnt adequately qualified to be there in the first place??!
unfortunately not a rare case, it happens on regular basis.
just its fatal this time.
why spend on pilots training if they can have autopilot engaged.
its cheeper to declare them drunk or unable to read ADI.
why train new pillots - its money?
make them fly more hours.
how we do it?
lets make 5 times overpay beyond limit (with almost no pay within).
lets publish new law,costs nothing just sheet of paper.
fatigue? what is it ? never heared.
safety? it seems nobody concerned.
money? yes we like this smell.
its much cheeper to fly AF,LH or KLM,than make own industry safe.
and Im affraid its too late.
Take care.
unfortunately not a rare case, it happens on regular basis.
just its fatal this time.
why spend on pilots training if they can have autopilot engaged.
its cheeper to declare them drunk or unable to read ADI.
why train new pillots - its money?
make them fly more hours.
how we do it?
lets make 5 times overpay beyond limit (with almost no pay within).
lets publish new law,costs nothing just sheet of paper.
fatigue? what is it ? never heared.
safety? it seems nobody concerned.
money? yes we like this smell.
its much cheeper to fly AF,LH or KLM,than make own industry safe.
and Im affraid its too late.
Take care.
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Fatigue:
From the official MAK report:
Captain flew 32Hs and 40 minutes during his last month, 15Hs 35 minutes during the last 3 days (7 sectors) and could rest for 15 hours before flying in his home.
Note: most night flights, some emergencies on-board. From 11-12 of September he had significant infringements of the duty times and time off.
First Officer flew 12hs and 35 minutes during his last month, 5Hs and 20 minutes during his last 3 days (2 sectors) and could rest for 15 hours before flying at hotel "Nord"
Training:
Captain received initial B737 training at FTI, Denver, in 2006. His last sim was in 16th of June at Lufthansa Training Center. He didn't get much line training time when upgraded to captain. FTI was not approved by the Russian authorities at that time and the Captain had to fly the TU134 for 4 months after being trained for the B737.
First Officer received initial B737 training at St Peterburg GU GA, Russia, in 2008 (training didn't meet all the Russian Authorities requirements). His last sim was on the 22nd of June at Lufthansa Training Center.
Pilots didn't get English language training at proper approved Centers, no upset recovery training.
Plus the maintenance issues like a impressive throttle stagger.
I might be wrong, but i think there's a shortage of pilots in Russia. Did they ever consider hire some expats? Even from other CIS countries? Well, maybe it would be too costly...
From the official MAK report:
Captain flew 32Hs and 40 minutes during his last month, 15Hs 35 minutes during the last 3 days (7 sectors) and could rest for 15 hours before flying in his home.
Note: most night flights, some emergencies on-board. From 11-12 of September he had significant infringements of the duty times and time off.
First Officer flew 12hs and 35 minutes during his last month, 5Hs and 20 minutes during his last 3 days (2 sectors) and could rest for 15 hours before flying at hotel "Nord"
Training:
Captain received initial B737 training at FTI, Denver, in 2006. His last sim was in 16th of June at Lufthansa Training Center. He didn't get much line training time when upgraded to captain. FTI was not approved by the Russian authorities at that time and the Captain had to fly the TU134 for 4 months after being trained for the B737.
First Officer received initial B737 training at St Peterburg GU GA, Russia, in 2008 (training didn't meet all the Russian Authorities requirements). His last sim was on the 22nd of June at Lufthansa Training Center.
Pilots didn't get English language training at proper approved Centers, no upset recovery training.
Plus the maintenance issues like a impressive throttle stagger.
I might be wrong, but i think there's a shortage of pilots in Russia. Did they ever consider hire some expats? Even from other CIS countries? Well, maybe it would be too costly...
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A report in Russian newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda said: "The general impression of this report is that somebody put two drunk and sleepy tractor-drivers into the cabin of an plane and later they had to land it somehow."
The plane's black box tape recorded the chaos on the flight deck as the crew struggled to fly the plane after switching off the auto-pilot.
As the pilots prepared to land, one was trying to turn the plane left, the other right.
Investigators said they did not know how to operate the horizon indicator.
The second pilot was heard shouting: "Do it for me please, do it!" and the captain shouted back: "I can't do it either", while the co-pilot desperately asked: "What are we doing?"
Russian death crash pilot was drunk - Yahoo! News UK
The plane's black box tape recorded the chaos on the flight deck as the crew struggled to fly the plane after switching off the auto-pilot.
As the pilots prepared to land, one was trying to turn the plane left, the other right.
Investigators said they did not know how to operate the horizon indicator.
The second pilot was heard shouting: "Do it for me please, do it!" and the captain shouted back: "I can't do it either", while the co-pilot desperately asked: "What are we doing?"
Russian death crash pilot was drunk - Yahoo! News UK
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Komsomolskaya Pravda is a yellow press tabloid in Russia. They are gonna do all for hot news.
I don't know if they were drunk or not, but I'd recommend not to trust this source.
I don't know if they were drunk or not, but I'd recommend not to trust this source.
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@ Michael Birbeck -
Yes; Russian style attitude indicator scheme of display on the right hand side in the following page:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/le...ZON-(SEND).jpg
Would I be correct in saying that a Russian attitude indicator would depict a movable aircraft symbol as opposed to the fixed aircraft on a Western AI?
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/le...ZON-(SEND).jpg
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Komsomolskaya Pravda is a yellow press tabloid in Russia. They are gonna do all for hot news.
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punkalouver, it was translated by MAK, not AAIB, for the NTSB and disseminated among all foreign parties to the investigation, including Boeing.
Lessons learnt
I was wondering that having re-read through the thread. Was the sequence started by a faulty autothrottle causing asymetric thrust and then 'suboptimal' crew response ?