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Aeroflot B737 Down near Perm

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Aeroflot B737 Down near Perm

Old 14th Sep 2008, 14:50
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Looks like something unusual surfaced (as on TV),

Air traffic controller who was in charge of the approach/landing says

QUOTE:

I told him "I see you climbing, confirm you are at 900 meters", he replied "Affirm, but we are descending", and continued to climb to 1200 meters. He was too high to make an approach from that position (given 1200 altitude), I gave him vectors (to something) and he accepted the command but did not follow it. I told him to turn right, but he actually turned left. I asked "is it all right with you" and he replied OK. I then handed him over to another controller, but he did not contact (that other controller), and started descending rapidly. At approx 600 meters there was a scream on a radio, and I told him to maintain 600. He did not reply, there was a flash and I declared crash alert. ... he did not report any problem, but was behaving inadequately, did not follow instructions (ATC commands)
Source ѕервый канал. ќфициальный сайт in Russian

Last edited by AlexGG; 14th Sep 2008 at 15:03. Reason: typos
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 15:40
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Found this on liveleak

LiveLeak.com - Raw : Russian Investigators On Scene Of Crash.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 15:45
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Captain Rodion Medvedev and FA Olga Kuchma

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Old 14th Sep 2008, 15:56
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Annex 13

That resides primarily within the Contracting State of where the accident happened. There are provisions for representation by the State of the Operator and State of Registration. Representations are also accepted from Manufacturers( eg Boeing and engine makers).

All Annexes can be accessed through ICAO on line. Look them up for clarification.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 16:04
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Maintenance engineer of AFL-Nord is quoted as saying that the plane had two defects reported by the previous crew:
- autothrottle not working properly (sometimes it responds, sometimes not)
- TCAS inop
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 16:07
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Russian General who gave Putin the middle finger on board...

General Gennady Troshev was also listed as a passenger, a former Presidential advisor on Cossack affairs and fired by Putin in 2002.
He was also infamous during the Chechen conflict and was supposedly listed as a target by Chechen extremists.
Troshev had bluntly refusel to accept a transfer from the high-profile North Caucasus Military District to a far-flung command in Siberia in 2002. Putin signed a decree removing Troshev from his post after the colonel general was shown on national television defying Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov's "offer" to accept command of the Siberian Military District.
Neither the Chechens nor Putin have claimed responsibility. My thoughts with the family of the pax and crew.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 16:19
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AlexGG

Many thanks for your updates and picture links.

I think that I noticed in the pictures that the rail line just starts to make a curve at the point of the crash. It also appears that the wreckage is quite well in line with the straight part of the tracks and with the gear down and at least one engine at high power.


I hope that somebody can post a google image of the tracks vs the airport runway headings.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 16:23
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N57.971476, E56.211634 - Google Maps

Airport is in the bottom left corner
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 17:05
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The yellow line in the picture connects the crash site (approx) and the Perm airport. The distance is 7.2 NM.



Wind was from north-east which, lacking other data, suggests the a/c may have been climbing out from the go-around.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 18:46
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Originally Posted by ExByMan
Responsibilities and oversight under Annex 8 (Airworthiness) are retained by Bermuda, who have Inspectors based in Moscow.
Are these really Bermudan CAA inspection staff deployed in Moscow, or just a subcontracted organisation who can do an hour or so of chargeable paperwork as required ?
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 18:51
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Я выражаю мои соболезнования к семье и друзьям
с моей искренностью,
Pj2

Last edited by PJ2; 14th Sep 2008 at 19:16.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 19:41
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Crash site video Boeing-737

No burns on site (green aren't black)
No damage for RR tracks
No broken poles, just wires.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 20:12
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Eng 1


Eng 2


Damaged RR track




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Old 14th Sep 2008, 20:15
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Engine failure cited in deadly Russian jet crash - Yahoo! News
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 20:16
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Emergency services say the plane was approaching its destination at an altitude of 1,800 meters when communication was lost.

The aircraft fell in wasteland and caught fire.
Yes, OK then. Ochen Spacieba.................
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 20:19
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BBC inaccurate reporting---again

Usual c**p from the BBC TV 24 News this afternoon, reporting authoritatively that "the aircraft exploded in mid-air"...not even "reported as having exploded". They are such a low grade news channel, no better than Fox, thank the lord for their superior competition.

As for the accident, many unanswered questions as with the Madrid accident...conjecture is a waste of time.

I wonder whether Rumours and News is a useful contribution any more. Probably yes, but a pity there is so much incorrect material posted by those not in the know.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 20:50
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It's amazing how every witnessed aircraft crash starts with engine failure and yet it almost never turns out to be the case.

The unreliable and traumatized witnesses can't help themselves after seeing flaming debris catapulted into the air along the flightpath. But the political representatives of the country typically give credence to reports of engine failure by their press releases.

This again is picked up by the news hungry press anxious to be the first to satisfy the publics hunger for blame. Yet within these first reports there is no learning or signs of "we got it wrong". Instead the same cycle of ignorance is repeated for the next accident as well.

At least on PPRune ignorance has a way of being corrected
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 20:59
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Does any one know at which point the supposed first attempt to land was aborted and the aircraft sent to an (supposed) go-around?
I think that in the afternoon, the BBC reported (no source mentioned) debris over 4 km. Any confirmation?
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 21:56
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Preliminary information points to technical problems and right engine fire, according to the chairman of investigating committee Alexander Bastrykin.
source http://news.mail.ru/incident/2017648 (in Russian)

although I'm not quite sure I got official "rank" exactly correct, that is a senior official.

Last edited by AlexGG; 14th Sep 2008 at 21:59. Reason: I just cannot get the link right
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 04:40
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My one observation right now is that in the still photos:

The wreckage came down right on a rail line with no visible shifting or damage to the rails (yes, I know, iron is more massive that aluminum...)

Similarly it surrounds several poles (power/telephone?) none of which appear scathed, toppled, bent. Pole spacing seems to be <100 m.

Similarly it lies underneath the wires on those poles, many of which wires are also still intact.

Grass mostly still green, as already mentioned, although I see some flash burning in a few spots.

Seems to imply relatively low-energy impact with the ground, while the shredding/destruction of the aircraft/loss of life seems to imply a high-energy event. Supports in-air breakup reports?
---------------------------------------------
Looking for definitive info on the aircraft heading at time:

Inbound to RWY21, or outbound on a Missed Approach from RWY 3? Controller's report of "turned left" from RWY centerline supports first, WX supports 2nd. neither very clear or certain.
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