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Aeroflot B737 Down near Perm

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Aeroflot B737 Down near Perm

Old 14th Sep 2008, 08:07
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 08:25
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Bunch of pictures of the accident site here:
-737. 88 :

Looks like a heck of a mess
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 08:37
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Aeroflot Nord is not a "Directorate" of Aeroflot, that was an old Soviet era concept. It was an independent carrier Archangel Airlines based in the far north of Arctic Russia. Aeroflot bought a majority (but not total) number of the shares 4 years ago, and they started to re-equip from Soviet era Tupolevs to secondhand western types like the 737 in question. As I understand it they operate on a separate AOC to Aeroflot.

Moscow to Perm is not on the Aeroflot Nord network, but is a mainstream Aeroflot route, so the operation is an effective wet-lease, or similar to a US commuter carrier operation. Aeroflot Nord flights are numbered 5N whereas mainstream Aeroflot flights are SU. There are a number of such flights for mainline Aeroflot out of Moscow (their only operational base nowadays) to various Russian cities. The aircraft rotate in/out of the Archangel base.

Russian aircraft imported from the "west" are almost entirely registered in the west (Bermuda is a favourite but there are others) due to a very substantial import tax in Russia on aircraft.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 08:38
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Weather at Perm / Bolshoye Savino:

USPP 132200Z 06005MPS 7000 -RA OVC007 06/06 Q1012NOSIG RMK QFE748/0998 FBL ICE INC SC050=
USPP 132300Z 06005MPS 9999 -RA OVC008 07/06 Q1012NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050=
USPP 140000Z 06005MPS 7000 -RA OVC009 07/06 Q1011NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050=
USPP 140100Z 07006MPS 3900 R21/P4300D -RA OVC007 07/06Q1011 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050=

Earlier, until 1700Z, there was a remark about severe icing in clouds "SEV ICE INC 3000-9000 SC050="
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 08:41
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Nothing really factual is available so far.

1. 87 fatalities, no survivors,
2. aircraft damaged the rail line (about 50 meters of rail, railroad section closed for repairs)
3. Aircraft type reported 737-500
4. News reports aircraft was in for emergency landing when it crashed. The report states it like an emergency has already been declared, but I do not see any sort of confirmation for this.
5,. Probably based on eyewitness accounts, reports are that aircraft was on fire and broke-up in mid air.
6. Raido contact lost at 03:10 MSK at altitude of 1800 meters.
7. Black box (at least one) is reported found.

In case someone would need this, hotline phone +7 342 2949848 (in Russian probably)

For images check here NEWSru.com :: :: Boeing-737-500 , in the top line green arrows are clickable (for those who do not read Russian)
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 08:46
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Most recent update (source being local TV) is that there was an engine failure and/or fire of some sort, and it did a go around on a first landing attempt. Although there is no information about engine problem developing before or after go around.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 09:12
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1. The airplane crased after Go-around from about 1800 m (about 6000 ft).
2. The eyewitnesses say it already was in fire before ground contact and descended on a path about 40 degrees angle.
3. According the TechLog it had some problems with Autothrottle.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 09:12
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Youtube

There is a video on you tube showing the crash seen shortly after the crash. TV station were allowed in to view.

I am not posting the link. People know how to search.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 11:12
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Russian media are talking about an engine failure on flight SU281 and that the rescuers have recovered the FDR and CVR. Crash site on the Trans-Siberia railway (extensively damaged) missed surrounding apartment blocks, so there are no reported injuries or fatalities on the ground.

Flight crew are named as commander Rodion Mikhaylovich Medvedev and copilot Rustam Rafailovich Allaberdin, stewards, Shirokov A.D., Noritsina T.V., Yakovlev A.Y. and Kuchma O.V., and the passenger list names 82 passengers including 6 children. RIP.

Apparently a family of 5, including 2 children, missed the flight at SVO.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 11:34
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When I hear the word 'expert' I shake and judder and various warning lights come on; lights that do not extinguish until I am safely out of the 'experts' area!
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 11:57
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Aeroflot decides to cut cooperation with Aeroflot Nord since tomorrow, - the head of Aeroflot Valery Okulov said!
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 12:02
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@Simonpro. Thank you for the link, but... I wish I wasn't able to understand some parts of the text...
Очевидцы трагедии в Перми рассказали шокирующие подробности происходившего в первые минуты после падения самолета Боинг-737.

По их словам, оказавшиеся первыми на месте ЧП люди... начали мародерничать.

- Они с трупов одежду снимали, сволочи..., - всхлипывая, рассказывала одна из очевидиц катастрофы.

Добычей мародеров стали паспорта, драгоценности. Там много чего, - заметил один из
местных жителей. Пятеро мародеров были пойманы на месте преступления.
An amateur translation of mine, sorry if not accurate...

Eyewitnesses described some the shocking details of the Perm's tragedy during the first minutes after the accident of Boeing-737.

According to them, the first on-site were... the local looters.

- They hastily weared-off clothes from the dead bodies, "Svolochi" ... - told an eyewitnes.

They were searching for passports, jewelry. There were a lot of things, - noticed one of the local residents. Five looters were caught and are being held now.


People hyenas, my God!

Last edited by pee; 14th Sep 2008 at 12:16.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 12:34
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@pee LIFE.ru is a kind of Sun or other yellow press
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 12:41
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First of All I am not an aviation Expert/pilot/ or ATC I am just an enthusiast who likes aviation with some small knowledge compared to others here in the forum. so don't falme on me ...................

I have noticed on the link of the russian newspaper -737. 88 : that they attached a chart for the Runway 21 Approach
http://life.ru/media/content/0908/f1...5e10ce5c4a.jpg

I don't know if this chart is from the crash incident or they just put any chart

the Chart is russian so I am not able to understand weather that's a ILS/VOR/NDB APP
But checking the Latest Jeppesen Charts for the Airport I see 2 APP Charts for the Runway
1 - ILS OR LOC RWY 21 = Effective : 1 Feb 08
2- 2 NDB OR NDB RWY 21 = Effective : 14 Feb 08

refering back to the russian Chart on the newspaper's website we can see at the first part that it read (26 anp 00)

which means that it's outdated remember the Crash of the 737 US Airforce in 1996 in Croatia

Again DON'T FLAME ON ME it's just my opinion and I am declearing it
the investigation at the end will say the truth (let's hope)

finally RIP all involved
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 12:51
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Picture is just some "example of landing routine at PERM a/p".

Just coincedence:
There was General Gennady Troshev (former Commander-in-Chief of North Caucasian Military Command) on board.
Today is D.Medvedev birthday
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 12:57
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Dont worry everyone, i know the cause!!!

its right here in this news story news story link here

As the plane was coming in for landing, it lost communication at the height of 1,100 metres and air controllers lost its blip.
thats the problem folks! missing blip.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 13:05
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The Russian investigation office is very speedy (compared to some others). The accident has shown up on their website and a two initial statements are out

The technical commission of intergovermental aviation committee continues its work on the spot of the crash of aircraft the Boeing-500 of airline Aeroflot- north. Onboard chart recorders of aircraft (so-called black boxes) are discovered and they will be delivered into the intergovermental aviation committee by the nearest voyage.

Boeing-737
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 13:20
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METAR - USPP 132300Z 06005MPS 9999 -RA OVC008 07/06 Q1012 NOSIG RMK QFE748/0997 SC050

Confirmed that that was second attempt of landing.



Crash site: N57.971476, E56.211634
OR N5758'18,00" E5612'42,00"


Last edited by Kulverstukas; 14th Sep 2008 at 13:37.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 14:10
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VP-Bxx

There is an agreement between the Russian and Bermuda governments under ICAO Article 83bis, whereby regulation and oversight of Annex 1 (Licencing) and Annex 6 (Operations) are transferred to the Russian Authorities. Responsibilities and oversight under Annex 8 (Airworthiness) are retained by Bermuda, who have Inspectors based in Moscow.

I suggest that readers look up what all that means before jumping to conclusions.
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Old 14th Sep 2008, 14:43
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whereby regulation and oversight of Annex 1 (Licencing) and Annex 6 (Operations) are transferred to the Russian Authorities. Responsibilities and oversight under Annex 8 (Airworthiness) are retained by Bermuda,
Who has Annex 13 (Accident Investigation)?
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