BA038 (B777) Thread
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Shame, shame, shame, BA Tech Crew should be holding their heads low after allowing this to have happened.
Some solidarity around a colleague after a major incident or accident, would have been the decent thing to do.
Reserving judgement and quashing rumuor until the official findings are clear.
Some solidarity around a colleague after a major incident or accident, would have been the decent thing to do.
Reserving judgement and quashing rumuor until the official findings are clear.
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Wow IM1234 you were quick!
Also here
And if you want the full unedited version it's here
I expect some people will find reason to slate me for doing this story but I hope that most will understand the position I am in and therefore tolerate my decisions.
Also here
And if you want the full unedited version it's here
I expect some people will find reason to slate me for doing this story but I hope that most will understand the position I am in and therefore tolerate my decisions.
Last edited by Mmmayday38; 21st Mar 2010 at 00:43.
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Mmmayday38
See my post 26. I did warn you that you would regret leaving BA. You were not forced out but took voluntary redundancy.Harsh maybe but true.You should have had the courage of your convictions and remained at BA.
You were naive in the extreme in thinking you would get any other job yet alone on a B777 as only large well known airlines operate them and I take no pleasure in seeing that my predictions have come true.
Perhaps you should pay Pablo Mason a visit at his hotel in Leamington Spa and compare notes.
Best of luck still for the future.
See my post 26. I did warn you that you would regret leaving BA. You were not forced out but took voluntary redundancy.Harsh maybe but true.You should have had the courage of your convictions and remained at BA.
You were naive in the extreme in thinking you would get any other job yet alone on a B777 as only large well known airlines operate them and I take no pleasure in seeing that my predictions have come true.
Perhaps you should pay Pablo Mason a visit at his hotel in Leamington Spa and compare notes.
Best of luck still for the future.
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The Gypsy
Not only were you not "there", but you haven't had to put up with what happened afterwards. Least the Captain had the courage to walk away. On that basis alone I wish his luck changes
Not only were you not "there", but you haven't had to put up with what happened afterwards. Least the Captain had the courage to walk away. On that basis alone I wish his luck changes
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Peter,
Without knowing the "ambience" that you felt going to work I don't think it is fair that any of us pass judgement on your leaving decision, and I hope nobody would have the cheek to criticise any decision you make as regards contact with the press, finally we all need to eat.
With the benefit of hindsight it is all too easy to say that you should have secured some commitment from another company before taking the plunge, but it was your call on the day.
Perhaps too, the long term effects of this accident could also have manifested themselves in an ¡ncreased sensitivity to perceived criticism, but to be honest I think that is just touchy-feely BS, and you were merely hurt and piqued by the veneer of respect shown by some who knew cack all, that in reality cloaked back stabbing snipes at your professionalism.
Knowing you had done the right thing, whilst feeling at the same time "gagged", and even ,for chrissakes, not trusted, is indeed not a very healthy working environment.
All of us here (well the ones that count anyhow, I won't speak for a few "notable" exceptions) have admired your patient handling of sometimes inane criticism/probing into, your actions that day. It is only partially possible for us to imagine the frustration of having 30 very frantic unrehearsed seconds of your life replayed in slo-mo and subjected to conjecture by some who frankly appeared not to know their @rse from their elbow.
One unfortunate by product of your participation in this forum, and through TV interviews, your website and the book, is that you can be perceived by H.R. Dept's of various airlines as a "personality/celebrity".
I fully understand in the modern soundbite era how you have ended up in this situation, however, it remains a sad fact of life that most of the "human resources" types (and indeed CEO'S/ Chief Pilots ) do not want someone with a "personality" or even an "opinion" on their hands.
The old joke concerning how a line pilot would like his chief pilot to refer to him, when mentioned . . . " I would like him to say WHO ? " springs to mind here.
Hopefully some company with a modicum of imagination will see beyond your unchosen "circumstances" and employ you as "Capt Any Bloke" in the near future.
You deserve no less, we are all rooting for you, I know however that doesn't change much ,as DFO'S/ C.P.'s don't conduct a straw poll before offering positions.
You have a great deal of admiration from, & the support of, your peer group, I hope that is at least a crumb of comfort, whilst you get your life sorted.
All the best
Without knowing the "ambience" that you felt going to work I don't think it is fair that any of us pass judgement on your leaving decision, and I hope nobody would have the cheek to criticise any decision you make as regards contact with the press, finally we all need to eat.
With the benefit of hindsight it is all too easy to say that you should have secured some commitment from another company before taking the plunge, but it was your call on the day.
Perhaps too, the long term effects of this accident could also have manifested themselves in an ¡ncreased sensitivity to perceived criticism, but to be honest I think that is just touchy-feely BS, and you were merely hurt and piqued by the veneer of respect shown by some who knew cack all, that in reality cloaked back stabbing snipes at your professionalism.
Knowing you had done the right thing, whilst feeling at the same time "gagged", and even ,for chrissakes, not trusted, is indeed not a very healthy working environment.
All of us here (well the ones that count anyhow, I won't speak for a few "notable" exceptions) have admired your patient handling of sometimes inane criticism/probing into, your actions that day. It is only partially possible for us to imagine the frustration of having 30 very frantic unrehearsed seconds of your life replayed in slo-mo and subjected to conjecture by some who frankly appeared not to know their @rse from their elbow.
One unfortunate by product of your participation in this forum, and through TV interviews, your website and the book, is that you can be perceived by H.R. Dept's of various airlines as a "personality/celebrity".
I fully understand in the modern soundbite era how you have ended up in this situation, however, it remains a sad fact of life that most of the "human resources" types (and indeed CEO'S/ Chief Pilots ) do not want someone with a "personality" or even an "opinion" on their hands.
The old joke concerning how a line pilot would like his chief pilot to refer to him, when mentioned . . . " I would like him to say WHO ? " springs to mind here.
Hopefully some company with a modicum of imagination will see beyond your unchosen "circumstances" and employ you as "Capt Any Bloke" in the near future.
You deserve no less, we are all rooting for you, I know however that doesn't change much ,as DFO'S/ C.P.'s don't conduct a straw poll before offering positions.
You have a great deal of admiration from, & the support of, your peer group, I hope that is at least a crumb of comfort, whilst you get your life sorted.
All the best
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TheGypsy
Maybe no-one physically forced me out of BA, however for the sake of my sanity,marriage and family I felt emotionally forced out. I have been approached since with ex-colleagues/friends questioning whether I was in the right frame of mind to make this decision but at the time it seemed the only thing possible. I had also been given an informal nod that I would have a job to go to and this appeared like an escape route.
You were the only person who ever voiced (and even then it was after I had already left - due to no fault of your own) the thought that other large airlines would refuse to take me based on the premise of the crash and publicity. No-one at BA, either management or union ever passed that thought or suggestion - when they knew I was thinking of leaving.
I have over 13,000 hours total on heavy jets all multi-crew
Almost 10,000 hours on 777 with over 3,500 hours as PIC
I hold a current ICAO ATPL
My english language is fluent
I am current - within 12 months
I have a valid medical
With the above qualifications I more than qualify for an interview with an airline recruiting for 777. I deserved an interview, yet as you have rightly pointed out NO interview came. So what would the reasoning behind that be?
***(obviously I've applied to other airlines with a lot smaller aircraft, I have not been surprised that I've not had an interview with them as I am not type-rated and there are more than enough type-rated pilots out there who deserve the job above me)***
Other pilots who have had crashes have been interviewed and succesfully became employed. So why is mine different?
The high profile nature of it and media attention around me?
Is this my fault? The immediate aftermath of the crash and media attention was invoked due to the company I was flying for and the airport we impacted into. This was not my fault. The AAIB have ruled it was not my fault. The AAIB have commended my actions.
Therefore 'thegypsy', should I assume that you are inferring that from my moment of impact on 17 Jan 2008, I had become unemployable to the rest of the airlines worldwide?
I remained silent until the final report was released. I had already been refused an interview by these various airlines BEFORE my website/BBC TV interview/mention of our book. Therefore, it goes back to the fact that airlines must have been put off by the publicity that surrounded the actual crash, not MY website etc.
I will make the future better for my family and I. As I say in my blog, there are times I get bitter but when those times happen I have to push them to one side. I cannot allow myself to wallow. It is sad and it isn't fair but as a family we will turn this around.
Sadly, 'thegypsy' your prediction has come true, and if anything, let this be a warning to unsuspecting future pilots who are unfortunate to be involved in a high profile incident.
You were the only person who ever voiced (and even then it was after I had already left - due to no fault of your own) the thought that other large airlines would refuse to take me based on the premise of the crash and publicity. No-one at BA, either management or union ever passed that thought or suggestion - when they knew I was thinking of leaving.
I have over 13,000 hours total on heavy jets all multi-crew
Almost 10,000 hours on 777 with over 3,500 hours as PIC
I hold a current ICAO ATPL
My english language is fluent
I am current - within 12 months
I have a valid medical
With the above qualifications I more than qualify for an interview with an airline recruiting for 777. I deserved an interview, yet as you have rightly pointed out NO interview came. So what would the reasoning behind that be?
***(obviously I've applied to other airlines with a lot smaller aircraft, I have not been surprised that I've not had an interview with them as I am not type-rated and there are more than enough type-rated pilots out there who deserve the job above me)***
Other pilots who have had crashes have been interviewed and succesfully became employed. So why is mine different?
The high profile nature of it and media attention around me?
Is this my fault? The immediate aftermath of the crash and media attention was invoked due to the company I was flying for and the airport we impacted into. This was not my fault. The AAIB have ruled it was not my fault. The AAIB have commended my actions.
Therefore 'thegypsy', should I assume that you are inferring that from my moment of impact on 17 Jan 2008, I had become unemployable to the rest of the airlines worldwide?
I remained silent until the final report was released. I had already been refused an interview by these various airlines BEFORE my website/BBC TV interview/mention of our book. Therefore, it goes back to the fact that airlines must have been put off by the publicity that surrounded the actual crash, not MY website etc.
I will make the future better for my family and I. As I say in my blog, there are times I get bitter but when those times happen I have to push them to one side. I cannot allow myself to wallow. It is sad and it isn't fair but as a family we will turn this around.
Sadly, 'thegypsy' your prediction has come true, and if anything, let this be a warning to unsuspecting future pilots who are unfortunate to be involved in a high profile incident.
Peter,
You are by no means alone in making career decisions that months or years later, hindsight tells you that the premises for the decision, including declined opportunities because of misplaced loyalty to an employer that did not deserve it, were incorrect.
Your situation confers a black eye on the entire industry.
You are by no means alone in making career decisions that months or years later, hindsight tells you that the premises for the decision, including declined opportunities because of misplaced loyalty to an employer that did not deserve it, were incorrect.
Your situation confers a black eye on the entire industry.
Quote from captplaystation:
...it remains a sad fact of life that most of the "human resources" types (and indeed CEO'S/ Chief Pilots ) do not want someone with a "personality" or even an "opinion" on their hands.
The old joke concerning how a line pilot would like his chief pilot to refer to him, when mentioned . . . " I would like him to say WHO ? " springs to mind here.
Spot on. Without reference to any particular case, these guys are terrified that their part of the operation might be the subject of controversial scrutiny, possibly jeopardising their grip on a greasy pole.
It's a cliché to say that fleet managers, and their dwindling number of flight-crew assistants, have to spend too much time at their desks, but it means that their peer group – the people they need to ingratiate themselves with – now consists mainly of people who have no cockpit experience.
There was a time when CEOs and Chief Pilots were arguably too ready to heap praise on their pilots in the aftermath of an accident. There is now a culture that the line operation is a completely straightforward business, which should be 100% reliable. Today's fleet managers – themselves often relatively inexperienced in the line operation – may be guilty of tacitly accepting this illusion, in the interest of keeping on-side.
In the event of any incident – or even a costly delay – lengthy discussions will usually uncover some perceived error on the part of the crew, generally showing the captain to be fallible in some degree. It's a long time before he or she lives down the resulting stigma, even if any formal investigation absolves him/her of blame.
Administrators, on the other hand, seem to be relatively immune from the consequences of their errors, do not have to possess a licence, let alone a type rating, and are in a position to negotiate their pay when switching employer. Management pilots are less mobile in their employment, unless they have qualifications in other fields. With mortgages and pensions to protect, brave decisions are best avoided.
...it remains a sad fact of life that most of the "human resources" types (and indeed CEO'S/ Chief Pilots ) do not want someone with a "personality" or even an "opinion" on their hands.
The old joke concerning how a line pilot would like his chief pilot to refer to him, when mentioned . . . " I would like him to say WHO ? " springs to mind here.
Spot on. Without reference to any particular case, these guys are terrified that their part of the operation might be the subject of controversial scrutiny, possibly jeopardising their grip on a greasy pole.
It's a cliché to say that fleet managers, and their dwindling number of flight-crew assistants, have to spend too much time at their desks, but it means that their peer group – the people they need to ingratiate themselves with – now consists mainly of people who have no cockpit experience.
There was a time when CEOs and Chief Pilots were arguably too ready to heap praise on their pilots in the aftermath of an accident. There is now a culture that the line operation is a completely straightforward business, which should be 100% reliable. Today's fleet managers – themselves often relatively inexperienced in the line operation – may be guilty of tacitly accepting this illusion, in the interest of keeping on-side.
In the event of any incident – or even a costly delay – lengthy discussions will usually uncover some perceived error on the part of the crew, generally showing the captain to be fallible in some degree. It's a long time before he or she lives down the resulting stigma, even if any formal investigation absolves him/her of blame.
Administrators, on the other hand, seem to be relatively immune from the consequences of their errors, do not have to possess a licence, let alone a type rating, and are in a position to negotiate their pay when switching employer. Management pilots are less mobile in their employment, unless they have qualifications in other fields. With mortgages and pensions to protect, brave decisions are best avoided.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 21st Mar 2010 at 14:26. Reason: Minor additions.
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Sad Fact
Peter,
Whether you are a "hero" pilot or not for your actions on BA038 I cannot judge. But sure as heck you are not at fault for the plane crash. 100% blameless is absolutely sure.
It is clear that the irrational fear of office bureaucrats has predjudiced them against them hiring you. A bit strange. Movie companies do their best to hire the biggest celebrities that they can find to attract attention to their films. I don't think Sully's fame was a negative thing for his airline. I would think your "celebrity" and "hero" status might be a bonus for some airlines.
Anyhow, my advice is to legally change your name and go find an undercover job for a few years flying for Air Siberia. Fair? No. But maybe better than the alternatives you may be facing at the moment.
pothole
Whether you are a "hero" pilot or not for your actions on BA038 I cannot judge. But sure as heck you are not at fault for the plane crash. 100% blameless is absolutely sure.
It is clear that the irrational fear of office bureaucrats has predjudiced them against them hiring you. A bit strange. Movie companies do their best to hire the biggest celebrities that they can find to attract attention to their films. I don't think Sully's fame was a negative thing for his airline. I would think your "celebrity" and "hero" status might be a bonus for some airlines.
Anyhow, my advice is to legally change your name and go find an undercover job for a few years flying for Air Siberia. Fair? No. But maybe better than the alternatives you may be facing at the moment.
pothole
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Actually
I would suggest keeping your name and maybe apply for a corporate operator. There are many good jobs available, even today and regardless of what the general public or your previous employer might think to the publicity, the CEO that understands his life is in the hands of the chaps (chapesses) up front will know, that when the chips were down, your actions brought about the best result of a bad situation. Thats the kind of stuff the boss wants to know we are all made of. Thankfully...... we never really get to let him know if his faith in us is misplaced or not.
If its something you want to consider and need help with...... PM me
I would suggest keeping your name and maybe apply for a corporate operator. There are many good jobs available, even today and regardless of what the general public or your previous employer might think to the publicity, the CEO that understands his life is in the hands of the chaps (chapesses) up front will know, that when the chips were down, your actions brought about the best result of a bad situation. Thats the kind of stuff the boss wants to know we are all made of. Thankfully...... we never really get to let him know if his faith in us is misplaced or not.
If its something you want to consider and need help with...... PM me
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I hope these leading airlines around the world take note of all this and one of them makes the wise decision of hiring Peter. A hero pilot who is more than deserving of an opportunity.
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Just an idle thought:
There was once another BA pilot who was also uncomfortable with the media attention given to his equally spectacular "incident".
After unsuccessfully trying to avoid the limelight he finally accepted the inevitable and concluded that he may as well become a media aviation "expert" where at least he could control the media comment on his own event and might just add a little informed comment to the complete nonsense poured out by journalists with every other new aviation incident. Maybe Peter could consider following Eric Moody.
Heaven knows there's a need for someone to interpret modern aviation to the idiots who call themselves Transport Correspondents these days.
There was once another BA pilot who was also uncomfortable with the media attention given to his equally spectacular "incident".
After unsuccessfully trying to avoid the limelight he finally accepted the inevitable and concluded that he may as well become a media aviation "expert" where at least he could control the media comment on his own event and might just add a little informed comment to the complete nonsense poured out by journalists with every other new aviation incident. Maybe Peter could consider following Eric Moody.
Heaven knows there's a need for someone to interpret modern aviation to the idiots who call themselves Transport Correspondents these days.
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Hey Driver,
You said
I think you will find that BA tech crew were proud of Pete's handling of the incident and have no criticism of him.
It was the cabin crew instructors that spread rumours that upset Pete.
I suspect a lot of the criticisms on this forum by people who were not there, not qualified on the 777 and not familiar with BA procedures probably upset him too.
Have you thought of reapplying to BA Pete? I'd be happy to see you reinstated in your original position and seniority. It would be a nice gesture from BA to make an exception for you.
You said
Shame, shame, shame, BA Tech Crew should be holding their heads low after allowing this to have happened.
Some solidarity around a colleague after a major incident or accident, would have been the decent thing to do.
Reserving judgement and quashing rumuor until the official findings are clear.
Some solidarity around a colleague after a major incident or accident, would have been the decent thing to do.
Reserving judgement and quashing rumuor until the official findings are clear.
It was the cabin crew instructors that spread rumours that upset Pete.
I suspect a lot of the criticisms on this forum by people who were not there, not qualified on the 777 and not familiar with BA procedures probably upset him too.
Have you thought of reapplying to BA Pete? I'd be happy to see you reinstated in your original position and seniority. It would be a nice gesture from BA to make an exception for you.
Last edited by suninmyeyes; 21st Mar 2010 at 20:50.
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Pete, I said I didn't think you should go in Hong Kong and I stand by that.
There is an increasing groundswell of opinion in BA that you should come back to us, and those I've spoken to below you (Including myself) are MORE than happy to take a drop of one in seniority to welcome you back to the fold.
Have you thought about it? Maybe the mis-informed crew have thought better about their comments now the details are out.You, John and Connor did us all proud on that day.
Give it some thought...We'd really like you back!!
There is an increasing groundswell of opinion in BA that you should come back to us, and those I've spoken to below you (Including myself) are MORE than happy to take a drop of one in seniority to welcome you back to the fold.
Have you thought about it? Maybe the mis-informed crew have thought better about their comments now the details are out.You, John and Connor did us all proud on that day.
Give it some thought...We'd really like you back!!
The desert's impact on Judgment??
I'm very surprised by the impact that the desert seems to have on Chief Pilots' and CEOs' judgment, and very possibly their integrity..
Why these guys in the sandpit have been less than completely honest with Peter is beyond me.
I know that one of the Chief Pilots regularly reads pprune. I wonder if he would care to defend his (apparent/alleged) er, very mixed messages, on here??
Maybe the ranting that some of the sandpit pilots do in the Middle East threads is accurate.
Why these guys in the sandpit have been less than completely honest with Peter is beyond me.
I know that one of the Chief Pilots regularly reads pprune. I wonder if he would care to defend his (apparent/alleged) er, very mixed messages, on here??
Maybe the ranting that some of the sandpit pilots do in the Middle East threads is accurate.
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As an ex-military pilot, who has some knowledge of this incident but has not read the whole thread I can only say that such an event occuring in the Military would probably result in an early award of a Queen's Commendation for Valuable Services in the air, a lot of goodwill and kudos within the Service and perhaps a promotion.