Guard (121.5) police get it wrong

[Admiral346]

From Flintstone:

...someone needs to tell them otherwise the frequency may not be clear...

Maybe that someone would be ATC, realising that an actual emergency is going on, but it sure as heck isn't you - you have no authority at all to be advising other people! Or do you hand out home made parkingtickets in your street, too? It is your call that just might be blocking someone calling for help.
If someone crosses the street on a red light, do you run after him to tell him that he just walked on red?

Nic

[groundfloor]

I'm sorry it offends your little shell-likes: take it up with the CAA if you have a problem.

Wow....

Ok common sense it would appear is not so common any more neither is an understanding or willingness to understand others workplaces. The workplace I am referring to is the airliner flightdeck operating in a busy controlled environment.

Take it up with the CAA - point taken. However in the mean time while the powers that be trundle along - how about thinking twice about whether its really necessary to be on transmitting on 121.5

Come on, be a pal.

[PPRuNe Radar]

Over Western Europe, is there any need for everybody to be on 121.5?

There are so many ground stations etc that the coverage is almost 100%.
surely if a D&D cell needs a relay, they will be able to contact a jet through the area centre.

Several times a day in the UK we need D&D to try and get contact with aircraft who are not listening out on the Area Centre frequencies that they should be. Other European ATC agencies have similar problems.

If you don't see a need for everyone to be monitoring 121.5 (when operationally possible), we'd better order more fighters for the inevitable interceptions

[Flintstone]

Originally Posted by Flintstone

...someone needs to tell them otherwise the frequency may not be clear...

Originally Posted by Admiral346

Maybe that someone would be ATC, realising that an actual emergency is going on, but it sure as heck isn't you - you have no authority at all to be advising other people!

Bearing in mind VHF/line of sight does it not occur to you that ATC, also being busy, might not hear them? How often do ATC ask aircraft to relay? Just because you, at FLwhatever can hear them doesn't mean everyone else can. Nothing wrong in a friendly hint if someone's not realised their finger error and if I were making that error I like to think someone would do the same for me. I'll continue to tell them and who knows, maybe one day it'll be me that stops you asking 25% of western Europe for fuel on arrival and making a complete arse of yourself.

If I interpret your post correctly you, an allegedly professional pilot would gladly sit and listen to someone calling 'XXX Ops' repeatedly without tipping them off? Go you

[groundfloor]

Spunkey Monkey :"Over Western Europe, is there any need for everybody to be on 121.5?
There are so many ground stations etc that the coverage is almost 100%."

We drivers airframe`s large have no choice for a couple of reasons

a. Good Airmanship - someone who is in trouble can rapidly become your problem, a depressurerisation at a level above you? They are going to call on 121.5 that they are on the way down. Remember airspace in Europe is like a cake with sometimes 3 frequencies in the same area at different levels.

b. Legal Requirement - every once in a while we are called on 121.5 to make sure we are monitoring, also happens in US airspace.

c. Airline SOP - nuff said.

[JAR]

"They are going to call on 121.5 that they are on the way down"

Not on 121.5 they won't!

[bri1980]

Groundfloor: "Take it up with the CAA - point taken. However in the mean time while the powers that be trundle along - how about thinking twice about whether its really necessary to be on transmitting on 121.5

Come on, be a pal."

I have no problem with your point of view at all. All I'm saying is one can't complain too loudly because in the case of a practice pan nobody is doing anything wrong, in a legal sense, as it stands.


B

[Lurking123]

No, that is just some sad to$$er who doesn't fully understand the environment he is working in.

[Il Duce]

No, no, no, Galacticosh. That is not beautiful, it's irresponsible. The chimp who transmits "go ahead" needs his head in a sling. London Centre have the capability of pinpointing these idiots in the London FIR/UIR and beyond. Those stupid enough to deliberately tie up 121.5 in this manner ought to be named and shamed and their company should have the nuts to take disciplinary action against them.

[Flintstone]

galacticosh.

Stringing someone along and encouraging them to block 121.5 is "beautiful"? No. It's pathetic.

Let's hope that if you ever need the frequency it's not immediately after you said "Go ahead" to someone else.

[DX Wombat]

Bearing in mind VHF/line of sight does it not occur to you that ATC, also being busy, might not hear them? How often do ATC ask aircraft to relay? Just because you, at FLwhatever can hear them doesn't mean everyone else can.

Almost two years ago that is precisely what happened to me (amongst other things). It took at least two if not three calls to D&D before they were able to hear me and I was only able to maintain sufficient communication with them to know I was identified. Things went from bad to worse - the radio problem meant that they could hear me but I couldn't hear them - it was like trying to listen to a conversation in a room a hundred yards away when the sound was very muffled. I knew they could hear me so kept talking and telling them what I was doing, seeing, etc. The radio volume WAS turned up to maximum. The transponder decided to join in the fun and refused to work as did the spare hand-held radio. As I turned crosswind and descended to 1,000' at what turned out to be North Weald, the radio suddenly cleared and I could hear the very welcome voice of an Emirates Airbus pilot 37,000' somewhere way out over continental Europe. A lovely, very reassuring man who really helped me enormously and whom I shall never forget. Apparently someone near Hull also tried to help but I never heard them. By the time I reached 600' I could hear D&D clearly and the last North Weald saw of me was a climbing turn out to the right on final as D&D talked me to about eight miles from Duxford which was my intended destination.
That was supposed to be my QXC.

[rubik101]

Guard?

I might be wrong but shouldn't 'Guard' be used only in reference to UHF frequency 243.0?
The term 'Guard' refers back to the old (1960-70s) military radio installation with a rotary knob for frequency selections. Numbered 1 to 32 and then a 'G' referred to as Guard.
Pedants rule, I think!

[Red Top Comanche]

Keep Listening

As a ppl who had to use 121.5 for real once when I lost contact with everyone, including fields I was less than 5 miles from, I can only thank the easyjet driver who relayed my loss of contact to Lyon and then to the milatary field who picked up on my call and offered me a service untill we got clear of whatever was interfering with all 3 radios. And no one shouted "your on guard"

[TOPBUNKER]

I notice the 123.45 advocates have adopted PPRUNE silence!

[africacore]

Guard police

As a current 744 jockey 12000+ hours on type i must say the most annoying people are the guard police. Firstly they, while transmitting may block someone in their range, but they may not be able to hear another pilot 250 miles further away, so butt out.
Also I heard a cargo airline trying for a relay on 123.45 after an engine failure. I asked if he could tx on guard to be told that was for emergencies only!! Lets not make people scared to use it.
Butt out Guys, you by tx ""your on guard" is as unprofessional as those who do misuse it
IMHO
AC

[Raj Merlion]

africacore.......well said, aye,aye captain!

[captjns]

Sorry but, I find it annoying listening to Brand X making 4 or 5 attempts on guard trying to reach operations. One "YOUR ON GUARD" is worth 4 or 5 attempts "LGW OPS THIS BRAND X 69 OVER".

[PENKO]

captjns, I hear what you are saying. However we are talking about the GUARD POLICE, who will shout at even the smallest infringement of 121.5

Let's be honest, the guys who miscall ops on 121.5 will usually notice their error pretty quickly. No need to be punished by the POLICE.

[Lurking123]

This whole discussion is pathetic. It wasn't that many years ago that the majority of airline pilots didn't even know when to use 121.5, how to select it on their box (slightly tongue in cheek) and certainly what the term "guard' meant.

I think africacore is one of the few professionals on this thread. If having to listen to a second freq (because your company SOPs now say so) irritates you, then turn the volume down to a level lower than your primary ATC comm freq. The only time you need "guard" is when the other primary freq goes really rather quiet and you haven't figured out that you have had a switch pigs. Hopefully, by then you will still have some of that ATPL common sense left and realised that something is not quite right. In the meantime, be careful not to spill that in-flight meal as you race to change Tx channels in order to be the first to get that "on guard" call in.

[PENKO]

I think some 'professionals' prefer to listen to 121.5 not because it is SOP, but because it might just prevent a close encounter with the Air Force.