Guard (121.5) police get it wrong
Join Date: Mar 2006
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On the flip side..
Thanks to the Speedbird driver that was back in a flash when I declared a PAN on 121.5 west of Greenland late last month.
Never got a chance to say thanks for the relay to Gander..
PLE..
Thanks to the Speedbird driver that was back in a flash when I declared a PAN on 121.5 west of Greenland late last month.
Never got a chance to say thanks for the relay to Gander..
PLE..
And . on the off chance that this mornings SAS crew on the departure out of CDG are reading this thread.. Good work this morning, you stepped on a total of 9 transmissions as you changed frequency and transmitted straight away without listening first ! excellent.
ps. I don't think saying blocked is bad, maybe its just me...
ps. I don't think saying blocked is bad, maybe its just me...
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To defend the so called practise pan brigade. I have been asked before by Scottish to swap to 121.5 and give a practise pan for controller training, which I happily did. Its not just trainee PPLs "taking a liberty".
Join Date: Nov 2004
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How would you possibly guard another frequency?
They have a priority scan system that monitors both CH:16 and another.
If 16 is busy it stops and you hear it.
If the alternative channel is busy it stops and you hear it but it also continues to sample 16 (so fast you're not really aware) and if something come up on 16 it automatically switched there.
Then there are marine VHF that can 'triple watch' with 3 channels.
All with just one radio.
Been doing it for donkeys years.
Oddly enough, as a NPPL student I spoke to London Centre for the first time this evening for a training fix.
Listened out for a minute or two first, made the call and got a response confirming that we were a few miles west of Bedford. All very reassuring and easy and the first time I'd ever done it.
I hope I never need to speak to them again, but at least now I know how.
Listened out for a minute or two first, made the call and got a response confirming that we were a few miles west of Bedford. All very reassuring and easy and the first time I'd ever done it.
I hope I never need to speak to them again, but at least now I know how.
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Good for you, 152d!
Anybody can get lost, the key is to get help, and know how to recover a position. You know how to now, it's what 121.5 is for:
Aircraft in distress, be they 152s or 380s...
Nic
Anybody can get lost, the key is to get help, and know how to recover a position. You know how to now, it's what 121.5 is for:
Aircraft in distress, be they 152s or 380s...
Nic
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Why not lighten up this seemely tense atmosphere around 121.5? Of course its a fq we all monitor but hey- if someone by misstake uses it whats the big deal?? Its so annoying to hear "ON GUAAAAAAAARD" afterwords. Feels like there is this one person with only one task on board- to say "ON GUAAAAAARD" as soon as he hears any thing. So stupid.
The other week we heard a fellow mate making his PA on 121.5 so shortly after (and no automatic ON GUARD BS) we went on the radio stating "One beer mate" and got a laugh and sorry back.
Much better than the other really annoying radio phrasiology, which isnt standard either... For those of you just to make a reply on this
I totally agree regarding the "Blocked" aswell. You should pick your times when wanting to be helpful, also going on the other fq to chat with Nigel on 123.45
You can do whatever you want, just say "Non Standard" before
The other week we heard a fellow mate making his PA on 121.5 so shortly after (and no automatic ON GUARD BS) we went on the radio stating "One beer mate" and got a laugh and sorry back.
Much better than the other really annoying radio phrasiology, which isnt standard either... For those of you just to make a reply on this
I totally agree regarding the "Blocked" aswell. You should pick your times when wanting to be helpful, also going on the other fq to chat with Nigel on 123.45
You can do whatever you want, just say "Non Standard" before
Join Date: May 2005
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123.45 is not a legal air to air 'chat' frequency - anywhere.
"VHF air-to-air frequencies enable aircraft engaged on flights over remote and oceanic areas out of range of VHF ground stations to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems." Not baseball scores et.c.
The air bands are extremely congested, hence the need to split the bands up into smaller spacing between frequencies.
Try reading this for instance.
Whilst in the military I occasionally needed to to use a VHF air-air frequency for large formation comm's. I had to get specific clearance from the CAA on a case by case basis, and when granted this was strictly limited by geographic and altitude limitations.
"VHF air-to-air frequencies enable aircraft engaged on flights over remote and oceanic areas out of range of VHF ground stations to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems." Not baseball scores et.c.
The air bands are extremely congested, hence the need to split the bands up into smaller spacing between frequencies.
Try reading this for instance.
Whilst in the military I occasionally needed to to use a VHF air-air frequency for large formation comm's. I had to get specific clearance from the CAA on a case by case basis, and when granted this was strictly limited by geographic and altitude limitations.
Last edited by TOPBUNKER; 22nd May 2008 at 12:17.
Join Date: May 2004
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Use of PAN and MAYDAY
Mention was made recently that some parts of the world do not recognise PAN calls. This is known to include iSpain, a quite local destination to British airlines. But the problem is that, to my knowledge, there is no definite list of countries that gives any indication about their recognition or otherwise of PAN calls. Presumably information about use of PAN calls in other countries is given in their respective Air Pilot publications, but who is going to read all of these? Until such information is published universally I would strongly recommend that MAYDAY be used for all emergency situations throughout the world, with the possible exception of the United Kingdom.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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123.45 is NOT a chat frequency
Many pilots think that 123.45 is a "chat frequency". It is not, but is used by several control sectors, particularly in eastern Europe. And ATC do not "use 121.5 as their backup frequency", but are legally bound to monitor it constantly.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Listening out on guard as legally required can be a complete pain in the ears, yes people off freq etc is what its for and of course those in distress. The "practise pan" bit I don`t buy as 121.5 is the actual emergency freq not a practise freq (is there a training 911 or 999 tel no) Trundling into Europe at 400 with lots of freq changes and zeroing in on a 121.5 only to hear its a "practise" is a bother. 121.5 was always and still is an EMERGENCY freq and should be treated with respect. Shouting you are on guard also does not help. If the lad has called his ops etc 3 or 4 times a polite you are on 121.5 will suffice.
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Groundfloor: "The "practise pan" bit I don`t buy as 121.5 is the actual emergency freq not a practise freq"
The R/T manual (CAP413) says that this is acceptable usage: it doesn't matter if you 'buy it' or not.
If making a practice call though listen first just to be sure there isn't a real emergency going on.
I have never used 121.5 for real and I hope I never have to. But come the day I need for real it I want it to be clear with no interruptions: except of course from a more dire emergency than mine.
The R/T manual (CAP413) says that this is acceptable usage: it doesn't matter if you 'buy it' or not.
If making a practice call though listen first just to be sure there isn't a real emergency going on.
I have never used 121.5 for real and I hope I never have to. But come the day I need for real it I want it to be clear with no interruptions: except of course from a more dire emergency than mine.
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121.5 has one use, one use only and should be kept clear. If anyone is too ill disciplined to abide by that the problem is theirs. Surely you're not telling me that the need to chat to your mate, colleague or whatever is SO pressing that you have to break the rules? Get a grip. You're at work as a so-called professional. Act like it.
As for the 'On guard' calls, why not? If someone is mistakenly calling their company or whatever and fails to realise their mistake (I heard someone make four calls yesterday in a vain attempt at ordering a wheelchair on landing) someone needs to tell them otherwise the frequency may not be clear when someone needs it the most.
As for the 'On guard' calls, why not? If someone is mistakenly calling their company or whatever and fails to realise their mistake (I heard someone make four calls yesterday in a vain attempt at ordering a wheelchair on landing) someone needs to tell them otherwise the frequency may not be clear when someone needs it the most.
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Quote:
...then all of a sudden the usual American voice shouts " You're on guard ".
Funny, I always seem to hear the folks with one of those snobby Oxford accents...
...then all of a sudden the usual American voice shouts " You're on guard ".
Funny, I always seem to hear the folks with one of those snobby Oxford accents...
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"The R/T manual (CAP413) says that this is acceptable usage: it doesn't matter if you 'buy it' or not.
"If making a practice call though listen first just to be sure there isn't a real emergency going on."
So its legal.... does that make it right? Think about how many flight decks you intrude on when you do your "acceptable usage". Every single flight deck within about 150NM to 200 Nm now has to listen to you....
How do you listen out for an actual call? On 126.9 over Africa calls very often step on each other becaues they are out of range of each other but the poor lad in the middle gets a lovely cacophony.
Remember in Aviation thing are 1. Possible 2. Safe and 3. Legal.
Just because its possible and legal does not mean its safe and or a good system. Most probably dates back to prop days..
"If making a practice call though listen first just to be sure there isn't a real emergency going on."
So its legal....
does that make it right? Think about how many flight decks you intrude on when you do your "acceptable usage". Every single flight deck within about 150NM to 200 Nm now has to listen to you....How do you listen out for an actual call? On 126.9 over Africa calls very often step on each other becaues they are out of range of each other but the poor lad in the middle gets a lovely cacophony.
Remember in Aviation thing are 1. Possible 2. Safe and 3. Legal.
Just because its possible and legal does not mean its safe and or a good system. Most probably dates back to prop days..
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Groundfloor: "So its legal.... does that make it right?"
No, it makes it a legal and legitimate usage like it or not.
As pilotbear says, occasionally D&D do notam requests for practice pans for their training purposes.
As for 'invading every flight deck in 150 NM': the practice pan conversation is between the D & D controller and the person practicing: if the D & D controller is happy to accept the call then I'm sorry it offends your little shell-likes: take it up with the CAA if you have a problem.
B
does that make it right?"No, it makes it a legal and legitimate usage like it or not.
As pilotbear says, occasionally D&D do notam requests for practice pans for their training purposes.
As for 'invading every flight deck in 150 NM': the practice pan conversation is between the D & D controller and the person practicing: if the D & D controller is happy to accept the call then I'm sorry it offends your little shell-likes: take it up with the CAA if you have a problem.
B