ICAO Language Proficiency Tests
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"Ever had the DGAC inspectors nock on the cockpit door? No fluency in english will help you to move your bird before the magic number is in the license."
Yeah, probably true. But why the f... have the authorities not just sent ONE letter to every other authority, telling them all pilot with our licence have Level 4 to this and that date, instead of sending thousands of letters to be carried around. Ours (german) is size A4 (roughly 10 by 13 inches). I canīt bring a bottle of water to work but my office is okay or what???
Yeah, probably true. But why the f... have the authorities not just sent ONE letter to every other authority, telling them all pilot with our licence have Level 4 to this and that date, instead of sending thousands of letters to be carried around. Ours (german) is size A4 (roughly 10 by 13 inches). I canīt bring a bottle of water to work but my office is okay or what???
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quote "But why the f... have the authorities not just sent ONE letter to every other authority, telling them all pilot with our licence have Level 4 to this and that date, instead of sending thousands of letters to be carried around. " unquote
That is exactly what the netherlands caa has done. They reported to ICAO that all dutch license holders (pre 5th of march) are level 4 qualified and that it will not be on their licenses for the next three years.
That is exactly what the netherlands caa has done. They reported to ICAO that all dutch license holders (pre 5th of march) are level 4 qualified and that it will not be on their licenses for the next three years.
Last edited by sleeper; 21st Mar 2008 at 10:18. Reason: editorial
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As one of the Scottish persuasion but with Irish mother I accept your apology Fareastdriver on behalf of the Irish.
Ah dinnae ken fit ye mean Beardy so can ye no get aff oor case.
Ah dinnae ken fit ye mean Beardy so can ye no get aff oor case.
Last edited by al446; 21st Mar 2008 at 11:17. Reason: spe;;ing
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A trainee recently gave me a link to an interesting exchange between a Chinese pilot and a controller at JFK. The pilot could not manage a simple taxi and hold readback, so I guess we were all supposed to laugh at his embarrassing lack of English. But the controller's strategy was to raise his voice and become agitated. I imagined the capt and copi cringing on the flightdeck. That was not going to help their situational awareness!
Any speaker may be over-fluent, too elaborate in structure and vocabulary, or just plain inconsiderate in interactions
Any speaker may be over-fluent, too elaborate in structure and vocabulary, or just plain inconsiderate in interactions
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@Dudeness
Because not all licenses automatically have the English radio licence! In Germany you have either the BZF II, BZF I, or AZF. Only those pilots with a BZF I or AZF radio licence recieved the letter. And you are to carry it with you when you fly outside of Germany or your licence may not be recognised by the foreign authorities. If you only have a BZF II, you did NOT get a letter because you only carry a GERMAN language radio licence!
I have read a few of your comments, for example in the Mannheim thread, and you definitely must brush up on your English grammar
sorry Dude.
Oh, and the letter is just to cover the time between now and 2010. By then, the problems of who, when, and where the exam takes place will be solved... maybe.
P.S. some countries don't even HAVE radio licences. Now, everyone (finally) has to learn proper communication in the aviation primarily language of English and prove they have done so.....
But why the f... have the authorities not just sent ONE letter to every other authority, telling them all pilot with our licence have Level 4 to this and that date, instead of sending thousands of letters to be carried around.
I have read a few of your comments, for example in the Mannheim thread, and you definitely must brush up on your English grammar
sorry Dude. Oh, and the letter is just to cover the time between now and 2010. By then, the problems of who, when, and where the exam takes place will be solved... maybe.
P.S. some countries don't even HAVE radio licences. Now, everyone (finally) has to learn proper communication in the aviation primarily language of English and prove they have done so.....
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Spanish level 4 exam
I work for a Spanish 320 operator.
As a result of the Level 4 English we will now be required to have level 4 Spanish within 1 year but have not seen it in writing yet.
Interestingly I have not been Grandfather rights to level 4 in Spanish as has been given out to most. Don't think this is equal.
Happy to improve my Spanish but not sure the DGAC are going about it the right way.
Will be a writing and taking a Spanish level 4 test. There is no syllabus and the Spanish DGAC has yet to write one.
When the idea of ICAO level 4 English was to set and improve the international English standard. Dont see this happening yet as many given grandfather rights, just more red tape and business for the schools.
I was a JAR 1600 English examiner and in my lowly opinion there are a lot of people with Spanish JAA ATPL licenses ( and Spanish controllers ) who do not have the required English standard.
If they would work on improving their English ( as I need to improve my Spanish ) which is the whole idea but grandfather rights kills the whole thing.
More red tape and beaurocrats... A lot will depend on the examiner and his/her interpretation of the level and people will slip through the cracks with the right examiner.
Personally in the future I do see it as a potential way to keep foreign pilots who do not speak level 4 Spanish out of Spain.
As a result of the Level 4 English we will now be required to have level 4 Spanish within 1 year but have not seen it in writing yet.
Interestingly I have not been Grandfather rights to level 4 in Spanish as has been given out to most. Don't think this is equal.
Happy to improve my Spanish but not sure the DGAC are going about it the right way.
Will be a writing and taking a Spanish level 4 test. There is no syllabus and the Spanish DGAC has yet to write one.
When the idea of ICAO level 4 English was to set and improve the international English standard. Dont see this happening yet as many given grandfather rights, just more red tape and business for the schools.
I was a JAR 1600 English examiner and in my lowly opinion there are a lot of people with Spanish JAA ATPL licenses ( and Spanish controllers ) who do not have the required English standard.
If they would work on improving their English ( as I need to improve my Spanish ) which is the whole idea but grandfather rights kills the whole thing.
More red tape and beaurocrats... A lot will depend on the examiner and his/her interpretation of the level and people will slip through the cracks with the right examiner.
Personally in the future I do see it as a potential way to keep foreign pilots who do not speak level 4 Spanish out of Spain.
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When the idea of ICAO level 4 English was to set and improve the international English standard. Dont see this happening yet as many given grandfather rights, just more red tape and business for the schools.
I have not heard of required testing in other languages, like Spanish. Could that be a national thing? In Germany you must have one of 3 types of radio licences: only German (BZF II), German/English (BZF I), English for IFR (AZF). With only a BZF II you may not fly outside of Germany. Anyone already having proven their (basic) English radio skills and having a BZF I and/or AZF received the level 4 automatically, after all, a language skill test in English had already been done at one time. No German re-testing is as yet planned.
I have an AZF and in spite of being an American received the level 4 like everyone else. I, too, must prove myself in English.... latest in 3 years.
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audio clips
i was on this forum yesterday and there were links to a website that had actual audio clips of r/t that one is supposed to transcribe verbatim in order to demonstrate english proficiency. i do not find those postings on here today... can anyone point me to those postings, or inform me whether the postings have been removed?
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Anyone willing to talk about language proficiency on a BBC Radio Programme?
Hi, I'm a researcher on the BBC Radio 4 programme Word of Mouth, which is about words and language and the way we use them.
We're hoping to include an item about the new Language Proficiency standards in a forthcoming programme; we'll probably be talking to the ICAO but would like to talk to a pilot too, about their own experiences and their thoughts on the new standards.
If you're interested, could you give me a call on 0117 9742470?
Thanks
Sally Heaven
We're hoping to include an item about the new Language Proficiency standards in a forthcoming programme; we'll probably be talking to the ICAO but would like to talk to a pilot too, about their own experiences and their thoughts on the new standards.
If you're interested, could you give me a call on 0117 9742470?
Thanks
Sally Heaven
Take me downwind
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A survey on Communications
Hello all,
I am conducting an online, anonymous survey on what certain points of communications mean to you. Could you take a few minutes to answer these questions? I'll share the results eventually.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...91Ar2xUQ_3d_3d
Thanks,
PE
I am conducting an online, anonymous survey on what certain points of communications mean to you. Could you take a few minutes to answer these questions? I'll share the results eventually.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?s...91Ar2xUQ_3d_3d
Thanks,
PE
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Engrish standard
Etihad Airlines have proven that the whole thing is B#rr#cks they have koreans who achieved level 4 but don't understand 90% of any conversation and can't read Engrish either, they have to go to their neighbours for help!
safe frying.
ALT
safe frying.
ALT
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planeenglish,
Just did your little survey.
Interesting.
Wouldn't even mind it being non-anonymous... send me a PM if you feel there's anything in particular worth discussing.
CJ
Just did your little survey.
Interesting.
Wouldn't even mind it being non-anonymous... send me a PM if you feel there's anything in particular worth discussing.
CJ
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Interesting survey: How are you going to analyse the text/definition section in a meaningful way except to say that you got many and varied answers. I could have told you that for nowt............
Cusco
Cusco
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Isn't the whole English proficiency test, that certain PPRuNers are miffed about underperforming in, all really to do with exam technique? :
If you sit a new style exam for the first time , because you are unfamiliar with it, you are likely to underperform.
That's why from poor little sods sitting SATs age 7 right up to A levels and beyond there are 'mock' exams partly to be sure that the format of the exam is understood (as well as confirming a respectable level of knowledge of course) .
P'raps there should be 'mock' English proficiency exams.........
Cusco
If you sit a new style exam for the first time , because you are unfamiliar with it, you are likely to underperform.
That's why from poor little sods sitting SATs age 7 right up to A levels and beyond there are 'mock' exams partly to be sure that the format of the exam is understood (as well as confirming a respectable level of knowledge of course) .
P'raps there should be 'mock' English proficiency exams.........
Cusco
Last edited by Cusco; 24th May 2008 at 07:53.
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I agree with the idea of "mock" exams. In one of my roles I swap hats and work as an LPE examiner for a JAA CAA. The exam board we use make the format of their available on their website in addition to offering a "pre-test" which has a slightly different format. Generally there are the pilots who enter my exam room having done their homework, listened to example tests, taken a pre-test and having spent as much time as possible before the test communicating in English and there are those who are not so proactive. Of these general pilots it is the former that tend to sail through the exam coming out with a Level 5 where they thought they were only in line for Level 3. Now could that be just a little more than coincidence? 