ICAO Language Proficiency Tests
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Thanks BEagle, this has sorted out my problem. I wonder how many others out there were unaware of this. BTW, that webpage states 11 March 2008 as the effective date. So now I have the 1st 5th and 11th. Anyone out there that needs it, you can apply online for a replacement FAA certificate that states "English proficient" on it for $2.
Need To Speed
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Hi Guys,
I'm only a CPL student here in Australia but i received a letter in the mail today from CASA (CASA is Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority) about this. The lettter states that from the 5th of March (2008) current license holders who are just flying domestically don't need the test but any new license applications for PPL license and above need to do it as part of their course and from September this will apply to Student pilots also. It basically says that pilots who fly International routes need to do this exam asap.
Details at www.casa.gov.au/language
I'm only a CPL student here in Australia but i received a letter in the mail today from CASA (CASA is Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority) about this. The lettter states that from the 5th of March (2008) current license holders who are just flying domestically don't need the test but any new license applications for PPL license and above need to do it as part of their course and from September this will apply to Student pilots also. It basically says that pilots who fly International routes need to do this exam asap.
Details at www.casa.gov.au/language
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Level 6 1/2 -
As far as the US FAA is concerned, they will automatically issue "English Proficient" endorsement for the certificates. I dont use my FAA certificate, but nice, I will get a new print that verifies that "aye spique ingliche". For $2.oo, it is a nice deal, so I will get a new certificate that is made of credit card plastic with the picture of the (W)right - or Wrong Brothers. Can I charge a fill-up of the 747 with that plastic...? -
xxx
Here in Argentina, we all get Level 4, no test for all the guys that have an ATPL.. Why would you need Level 5 or 6...? - To get the Malvinas maybe...? (the Falklands... in Level 6 jargon)...
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
Here in Argentina, we all get Level 4, no test for all the guys that have an ATPL.. Why would you need Level 5 or 6...? - To get the Malvinas maybe...? (the Falklands... in Level 6 jargon)...
xxx
Happy contrails
Join Date: Oct 2005
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If you are from a native English speaking country, just ignore it. Let's say there are 50,000 pilots in that situation, do you really think they will make our licences invalid? It's a crock....
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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English speaking or comprehension.
Although a modest PPL I have had Scottish and Geordie A/T where I have had to "say again" several times. It is the ability of the pilot to comprehend the instruction that is crucial and you only have to listen to some of the controllers in the US to know that to English ears their speech is almost indecipherable sometimes.
When you have requested information and are awaiting or expecting a reply comprehension is high but "out of the blue" queries or instructions can be extremely difficult to comprehend first time.
When you have requested information and are awaiting or expecting a reply comprehension is high but "out of the blue" queries or instructions can be extremely difficult to comprehend first time.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Interesting ... if anyone with an ATPL is assumed to be Level 4 or better, why have the requirement in the first place? The reason English proficiency is becoming an issue is that quite a few pilots who already have an ATPL cannot speak English well enough to communicate safely with ATC (and vice versa, since English proficiency is a serious problem for many controllers as well). So just issuing a default statement that someone is at Level 4 because he has the license already defeats the whole purpose of the requirement.
In any case, it looks like this ICAO requirement is already pretty much toothless. It has taken them years even to get to this deadline, and they seem to be making so many exceptions that the deadline isn't really meaningful. Apparently accommodation of pilots and controllers who cannot communicate in English is more important than preventing fatalities and accidents. Of course, the aviation industry isn't unique in having such skewed priorities, but somehow I had hoped that it would be a cut above other industries in placing more emphasis on safety.
In any case, it looks like this ICAO requirement is already pretty much toothless. It has taken them years even to get to this deadline, and they seem to be making so many exceptions that the deadline isn't really meaningful. Apparently accommodation of pilots and controllers who cannot communicate in English is more important than preventing fatalities and accidents. Of course, the aviation industry isn't unique in having such skewed priorities, but somehow I had hoped that it would be a cut above other industries in placing more emphasis on safety.
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Originally Posted by BelArgUSA
To get the Malvinas maybe...? (the Falklands... in Level 6 jargon)...
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Interesting ... if anyone with an ATPL is assumed to be Level 4 or better, why have the requirement in the first place?
I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years they just throw it out altogether...
Join Date: Sep 2007
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I've read that the rules of aviation are written in blood. Perhaps not enough blood has yet been spilled due to incompetency in English to write this particular rule in a durable way, despite the obvious potential advantages of the rule.
Unfortunately, as the globalization of air travel progresses, eventually accidents directly attributable to an inability to communicate in English are inevitable (some might argue that they have already occurred on multiple occasions, such as Tenerife). I suppose it will take a public outcry external to aviation to get the rules truly enforced. I think it safe to say that many countries that have not yet conformed to the rules (even though they've had years to plan for it) are likely never to do so in the future, either, no matter how many extensions are granted by the ICAO. The fact that the ICAO itself is in a location where considerable hostility to English has historically existed might also encourage the organization to be lax in enforcement and generous with extensions.
As for Argentina, this video clip from a documentary made in the country illustrating a serious ATC incident shows that problems still exist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvrbMjDvcX8
If controllers in Argentina are grandfathered into illusory compliance without testing in the same way that ATPs apparently are, I find this worrisome. On the brighter side, the pilot seems to speak excellent English, even though the country where his airline is based has an absolutely abysmal record when it comes to English competency. (I suspect, however, that the pilot in this case happens to be a native English speaker.)
Unfortunately, as the globalization of air travel progresses, eventually accidents directly attributable to an inability to communicate in English are inevitable (some might argue that they have already occurred on multiple occasions, such as Tenerife). I suppose it will take a public outcry external to aviation to get the rules truly enforced. I think it safe to say that many countries that have not yet conformed to the rules (even though they've had years to plan for it) are likely never to do so in the future, either, no matter how many extensions are granted by the ICAO. The fact that the ICAO itself is in a location where considerable hostility to English has historically existed might also encourage the organization to be lax in enforcement and generous with extensions.
As for Argentina, this video clip from a documentary made in the country illustrating a serious ATC incident shows that problems still exist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvrbMjDvcX8
If controllers in Argentina are grandfathered into illusory compliance without testing in the same way that ATPs apparently are, I find this worrisome. On the brighter side, the pilot seems to speak excellent English, even though the country where his airline is based has an absolutely abysmal record when it comes to English competency. (I suspect, however, that the pilot in this case happens to be a native English speaker.)
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LEVEL 4 Not received UK CAA!!!!!
Hi,
Has anyone not received their endorsement from the UK CAA like me?
What's you're plan of action, maybe can it be faxed as a temp fix?
IR
Has anyone not received their endorsement from the UK CAA like me?
What's you're plan of action, maybe can it be faxed as a temp fix?
IR
Received my replacement licence page from the CAA weeks ago!
Annoyingly, it has to be cut in half to fit into the licence booklet.
Annoyingly, it has to be cut in half to fit into the licence booklet.
Justa go' reta say I go' grafara ri reva foe ICAO Ingri but can upgrade to level six at my next checkride 
p.s: Joke aimed at ICAO, JAA etc and not at most foreign English speakers who speak English far better than I speak their languge.
p.s: Joke aimed at ICAO, JAA etc and not at most foreign English speakers who speak English far better than I speak their languge.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Foreign CAA license holders
I am based in France and phoned the CAA on Friday as I have still not received my update. They were unable to tell me if they have posted mine yet but apparently they will all be sent by next week.
In order for me to get Level 6, I either have to return to the UK ( I can make an appointment with a CAA tester at Gatwick) for the test or alternatively take it in France with a CAA recognised tester here.
Apparently the CAA website will be updated next week giving us a list of all the people allowed to test .. will have to wait and see !
In order for me to get Level 6, I either have to return to the UK ( I can make an appointment with a CAA tester at Gatwick) for the test or alternatively take it in France with a CAA recognised tester here.
Apparently the CAA website will be updated next week giving us a list of all the people allowed to test .. will have to wait and see !
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Pilots to face English tests
5:00AM Sunday March 02, 2008
Photo / Bay of Plenty Times
Aviation authorities in New Zealand want tighter English language rules for trainee pilots.
That follows growing concern about radio communications by foreign students at uncontrolled airports, where pilots rely on talking to each other to avoid collisions.
The new rules have been put forward by the International Civil Aviation Organisation which said English language problems were a factor in more than 1100 aviation deaths worldwide between 1976 and 2000.
From Wednesday a company working for the CAA will give would-be pilots an aviation-related English test over the phone.
Until now, students were tested by their flight instructor. Students must pass the new test before getting a pilot's licence.
Around 350 overseas pilots are currently training in New Zealand. The CAA said it was aware of "general concerns" with their airmanship.
"This view is under investigation and, if found to be correct, proficiency with English language may prove to be a factor." It said two flying schools were under investigation but would not name them.
New Zealand Aviation Industry Association chief executive Irene King said complaints about the language issue had increased.
"Sometimes it is difficult to understand people at the best of times, let alone on a radio. We are obviously pretty concerned about it. We don't want to discourage foreign pilots from coming here, they are critical to the survival of the industry."
The number of trainee pilots in New Zealand has doubled in the past four years, mainly due to what King described as an "explosive" increase in overseas students from Asia, South America, the Middle East and Europe.
Richard Gates, the chief executive of New Zealand's busiest airport, Ardmore in south Auckland, declined to be interviewed.
In a statement he noted the introduction of the English language test.
Craig Hunter, general manager of Ardmore Flying School which has about 20 foreign students on its books, refuted claims of poor English.
Hunter said some of his overseas students spoke better English than some locals.
"Sometimes people need to get over their middle-class, Anglo-Saxon issues," he said. "We are a multi-cultural society."
Hunter said Ardmore had relatively few foreign students compared to Paraparaumu and Palmerston North, which catered for up to 60.
Several pilots at Ardmore said they were used to foreign students' accents on radio broadcasts and did not consider them a safety risk
5:00AM Sunday March 02, 2008
Photo / Bay of Plenty Times
Aviation authorities in New Zealand want tighter English language rules for trainee pilots.
That follows growing concern about radio communications by foreign students at uncontrolled airports, where pilots rely on talking to each other to avoid collisions.
The new rules have been put forward by the International Civil Aviation Organisation which said English language problems were a factor in more than 1100 aviation deaths worldwide between 1976 and 2000.
From Wednesday a company working for the CAA will give would-be pilots an aviation-related English test over the phone.
Until now, students were tested by their flight instructor. Students must pass the new test before getting a pilot's licence.
Around 350 overseas pilots are currently training in New Zealand. The CAA said it was aware of "general concerns" with their airmanship.
"This view is under investigation and, if found to be correct, proficiency with English language may prove to be a factor." It said two flying schools were under investigation but would not name them.
New Zealand Aviation Industry Association chief executive Irene King said complaints about the language issue had increased.
"Sometimes it is difficult to understand people at the best of times, let alone on a radio. We are obviously pretty concerned about it. We don't want to discourage foreign pilots from coming here, they are critical to the survival of the industry."
The number of trainee pilots in New Zealand has doubled in the past four years, mainly due to what King described as an "explosive" increase in overseas students from Asia, South America, the Middle East and Europe.
Richard Gates, the chief executive of New Zealand's busiest airport, Ardmore in south Auckland, declined to be interviewed.
In a statement he noted the introduction of the English language test.
Craig Hunter, general manager of Ardmore Flying School which has about 20 foreign students on its books, refuted claims of poor English.
Hunter said some of his overseas students spoke better English than some locals.
"Sometimes people need to get over their middle-class, Anglo-Saxon issues," he said. "We are a multi-cultural society."
Hunter said Ardmore had relatively few foreign students compared to Paraparaumu and Palmerston North, which catered for up to 60.
Several pilots at Ardmore said they were used to foreign students' accents on radio broadcasts and did not consider them a safety risk