BALPA and BA talks breakdown

[Flap 80]

Those who misguidedly believe BALPA have a sure knowledge of the legal system and the likelihood of a legal win or loss and the corresponding financial loss the Union will suffer for all its members would be well advised to rermember how wrong Balpa were in 1993 with the Dan Air situation.
Then Balpa gave no support,Chris Darke pronouncing that those made redundant had no legal right to re employment/reinstatement or whatever and would be well advised to accept BAs paltry offer of GBP1500.
Others saw things differently (many balpa members amongst them) and through an action group took BA to Court....won the Tribunal ...and to Balpas embarrassment won GBP 3 Million.
Tell me that is an untrue statement.

[M.Mouse]

The statement is true but BALPA is:

a) no longer led? by Chris Darke
b) has changed tremendously since the Darke days.

So I have every faith in BALPA and the way they are leading the current dispute.



Despite kabuzz's profile he claims in another posting to be a CX employee. As well as similar levels of illiteracy his other posts also demonstrate a comaparably low level of intellectual rigour.

[Magplug]

Thanks Guys.....

Thanks fellas.... I just found the [IGNORE] button! I won't ever have to read BS from that redneck 411A anymore !

..... Roll on the High Court judgement. I hope their Lordships will see that it is nothing more than a cheap bullying tactic to intimidate workers from exercising their legal right to withdraw their labour.

Speaking of cheap bullying tactics.... I wonder who WW got the idea from.... O'leary perhaps?

[Faire d'income]

To serve strike notice on WW is to cross the Rubicon.

A WW complete win would mean BA Ts&Cs being trampled on for the foreseable future without the option of industrial action. Even if you voted against the action it must be obvious that a comprehensive defeat for the union means game over, bye bye pension, bye bye seniority, hello lower pay. The weak need to realise that in war there is nowhere to hide.

For that simple reason unity is the key. There is no alternative.

Good luck, it is vital for the industry at large that BA pilots stick it out and succeed.

p.s. instead of 'quizzing' and questioning your BALPA reps you should text, email or post your total support to/for them. WW will see it on their faces when they eventually get back to the table.

[nigegilb]

I beg to differ. It isn't too late to pull back from the brink. Going for the nuclear option in the current world financial crisis could be considered suicidal.

I dare say there is an amount of brinkmanship from BA Management, but just 15% of pilots flying choice routes might enable BA to see out 72 days and then the firings would start. I wouldn't throw my job away without knowing the exact situation. I have heard of resignations from BALPA in recent days.

If it was me I would be monitoring the situation very very closely. I don't share your rose tinted view of workforce solidarity, I am more convinced by the frailty of human nature.

I still say good luck, be careful who you trust.

[nicecsd]

Oh well, KLM/AF/AZ might buy us eventually!

[Faire d'income]

a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations

Nige you seems to think there is a reasonable way out that doesn't involve any unpleasantness. This is the man who locked out the Aer Lingus pilots midsummer and wasn't even looking for the 15% you think will return to work on reduced terms.

The above quote is from Walsh himself.

[nigegilb]

I take your point, I would not be surprised if WW responds to strike action with a very heavy hand. Negotiations should always be conducted in a reasonable fashion, but don't expect anything other than a very heavy handed response from BA Management once a strike gets underway. What has gone before under WW is informative;

"In response to the strike, Aer Lingus took all pilots off the payroll at midnight and will not reverse this decision unless they agree to work the new roster.

While the airline is operating a skeleton service using hired planes today, it has suspended all flights tomorrow and on Saturday.

IMPACT described the company's move as a lockout, saying pilots would be available for work from tomorrow morning."

I hope there is absolute clarity about what to expect.

[Hand Solo]

I dare say there is an amount of brinkmanship from BA Management, but just 15% of pilots flying choice routes might enable BA to see out 72 days and then the firings would start. I wouldn't throw my job away without knowing the exact situation. I have heard of resignations from BALPA in recent days.

You gotta be kidding me right? 15% of pilots for 72 days? Not even in managements wildest wet dreams. Even if you blow all 15% on one days longhaul services there'll be nobody left to fly tomorrows. You think BA will hold out 72 days flying less than 5% of their daily departures? Also I don't know who told you about resignations from BALPA but you've got duff info there. The numbers are growing, not shrinking.

[BAengineering]

Good luck to all our colleagues at BA, you have the full support of your friends in BA Engineering. For too long the company had pushed around and bullied it's staff. Negotiating with them is fruitless and you would be more successful .

The company has already started to turn one group against the other, do not listen to the propaganda, use your own thoughts and experience to judge who is right. Don't be jealous that all other departments have been unable to stand strong like the pilots, don't be bitter you have allowed your own terms and conditions to deteriorate, certainly don't berate the pilots when they show the backbone to stand up for themselves.

It is true the strike will be damaging for the airline, though it is our management's decision alone to take BA to this place. One thing is certain, those unskilled managers at BA, the countless ranks of them, will be the first at the doors of the Job centre.

The truth is if BA heads toward a crash, the pilots of that particular vessel will be WW and his cronies. Looks like our shareholders are bailing out already! £2.22! back to junk bonds. Reach for your parachute!

[Brianigham]

Your direction as a TEAM, is best decided by the leadership @ Balpa.

Stay the course gentlemen.

If you guys won't stand up for your rights, regardless the games and tactics used against you.........who else will !

Best wishes from the other side of the Globe!

[Iva harden]

It is very easy for all non BA pilots to egg on the BA pilots to strike. At the end of the day I believe money will talk and those with mortgages and families will not strike for any real period of time, if at all. If your job is at risk due to "illegal " strike action then very few will strike and those that do will be used as an example to others thinking of raising their heads above the parapit. It is a sh*te situation to be in. BALPA are going to have to earn their fees on this one and find a way around the BA legal point of view. If BALPA cannot then I think it will put them in an untenable position. I have a nasty suspicion that BA are calling BALPA's bluff and giving them enough rope to hang themselves. It has been poorly handled by BALPA...so far.

[BAengineering]

Anyway for all those who worry about the impending disaster that BA is heading for, check this out... ghost flights

With scheduling brains like that in our midst, who needs a pilots strike to bring down the house.

Oh, 'Beannachtam na Feile Padraig!' Happy St. Patrick's Day!
to one an all, Irish or not. That includes you WWW (Wee Willie Walsh)

Wherever you go and whatever you do, may the luck of the Irish be there with you.

[BAengineering]

Iva Harden - I bet you have, must be the excitement of all those meetings in Waterworld!

The fact that BA management are on here posting their propaganda really does speak volumes for the untenable position they find themselves. That is shortly with a fleet of 230 + aircraft and nobody to move them. Plenty of parking in the new T5

It'll be great for engineering, we can start to work into all those defects that need sorting.

[Right Engine]

Iva Harden,

I have (like a lot of others) recently taken out a credit card with Virgin (financed by MBNA). They have given me immediate access to £20,000 should I need it (With a cheque book to transfer the funds to my bank account). Should the need arise I can last a lot longer than the 35 days it would take for my 'recency' to expire. There are hundreds of us who have done this. The remainder have the funds in place (savings) to outlast Willy Wash.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Virgin sponsored my IA?

[Iva harden]

BAengineering.....no not at the moment and I have never had the dubious pleasure of a visit to Waterworld, I prefer the real world. I am not management thankfully. I have seen previous strike action and everybody gets going with the hope that the threat of strike action will do the trick but when push comes to shove there is not the same enthusiasm. I just do not think that a majority of people with mortgages and families would want to risk it especially as this strike has been deemed illegal by BA and there is very little response on the BALPA side at present. I really do hope BALPA will do something beacause it will be bad for all workers if and when the precedent is set by BA.

Hi Right engine, I am glad you have made provisions for your IA but you will obviously have to pay this money back at some stage along with the use of your savings.....are you really going to risk insolvency. How long do you think it might take you to get another job if BA boot out all the strikers? I hope for your sake it will not come to that. £20k is not alot of money nowadays. Good luck.

[KC135777]

Iva is carrying management's water.

FEAR is ESSENTIAL for management.

Ignorance, fear, greed & ego.....

Listen to the author of:

Confessions Of A Union Buster, Marty Levitt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xiLsDLXvwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGl3H...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So_Fv...eature=related

Ignorance and fear tear at the heart of UNITY.

BA pilots, do NOT allow that to happen.

[KC135777]

I.H.: this strike has been deemed illegal by BA

KC: what? and BA management is the legal authority in the UK? Uh-huh....
a feeble attempt at an EU "anti competition" rule/law.
grabbing at straws, maybe? we'll see.

I.H.: I really do hope BALPA will do something beacause it will be bad for all workers if and when the precedent is set by BA.

KC: pressure on BALPA, fear, ignorance....I.H. again, carrying management's water.
quite pitiful, actually.

[Iva harden]

KC135777.......interesting guy what we would call a fat cat here in the uk. He has an ego though as all good union busters would . Perhaps BALPA should hire him.....i bet he wont come cheap.

[curser]

Iva, you are clearly not BA flight crew and you claim not to be a water world stooge, so the question, I'm asking myself, is what is it you're bringing to the debate? what credentials/experience do you have that makes you feel your opinion should carry any weight here? Speaking from experience, the best post has been the last paragraph of post 285.