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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:25
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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For those worried about dates of any possible strike action if I am right in my limited understanding of UK law on this the strike has to take place within the 28 period after the ballot result, and with 7 days notice.

So from this moment any strike can only take place between Feb 29th & 20th March. So at the moment it won't directly affect the T5 opening on 27th March
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:31
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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What? Gatbusdriver, you are not helping you or your colleagues plight with that sort of post.

The 'whining' you get here will only be the beginning, I suspect you will be adopting the brace position.

I suspect however that most of your colleagues actually want to talk though and that there will be a result.

Your aggression is not an advert for the Pilot plight, may I advise you take the backbench.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:31
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Marlowe - I appreciate no one really wants to strike and to be honest I do have elements of sympathy towards "the cause".

For everyones sake all I would say is please do remember your customer base - we will also be affected by this.

I have said enough.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:35
  #124 (permalink)  

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BA and it's pilots needs to show flexibility.
We are not trying to prevent BA competing in the real world, we just want the opportunity, if OpenLies is a success, to share in that success. BA somehow see that as a threat. BALPA have been very good in recent years in reaching equitable solutions to some fairly difficult problems, pensions being one of them.

If we were truly inflexible and did not have an eye to teh future profitablity of BA we would have been balloting for strike action over those other issues.

WW obviously sees vast rewards, not least for himself and that inaptly named 'leadership team'. Fine but he is not going to achieve that off my and others contributions while at the same time freezing us out of any future share of those rewards. In fact I believe it is his intention to rapidly undermine and minimise the rewards I and my colleagues currently enjoy.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:37
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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nivsy - well said.
the customers are already walking - long may they continue to walk
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:39
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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This is simple cause and effect, WW and his bunch of merry sandal wearing latte' quaffers have had the message loud and clear, now they want to start talking again
Oh to be a fly on the wall.....
"Mr Walsh, its 86% in favour of a strike....."
"Begooooora Sebastion, not again? where oh where are we going wrong?"
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:41
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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pingo

Do you understand the issues and why the crew voted for strike action?

It is a shame that customers are affected, nature of the beast i'm afraid. What you don't realise is that the crew are not looking for your support
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 14:52
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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I think my braces are caught on something as I keep pulled back in here. (I am trying to lighten the atmosphere in case anyones in doubt)

There are some very uptight people posting here, both pilot and customer, and they have a right to be upset. I can take posings like gatbusdrivers on the chin, but can I now put my 'holidaymaker' title back in its box.

Games of industrial cat and mouse like this have been around since God was a boy. Yes you have to show solidarity if you are going to be listened to and you have certainly achieved that. You have got them back to the discussion table again.

But realistically you are not going to leave the table with no change to your current status. Those who have said that BA has to remain competitive are quite correct and that will mean some changes. ( ref my earlier posting British Leyland, the National Coal Board and probalby in the future the Post Office are/were just not competitive, whoevers fault it might have been)

I was once told that Accountants know the price of everything and the value of nothing. That is especially true for human resources as well as material. But unfortunately they hold a lot the the company strings these days.

Get yourselves together through your union rep's and decide how much give and take has got to be allowed for. Give WW and his crowd something they can hold up to the press as a 'victory' so they can back out without losing face.

If you give BA's PR Department a sows ear they should be able to make a silk purse out of it if they are any good at their job.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 15:12
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Human Nature dictates that they are.

And you do want my support, I can be very confident of that.

Why are you not more constructive?

It is not Pilots V BA.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 15:14
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Vino I think everybody understands that a compromise will have to be reached around the table and that some giving and taking will need to take place BUT its the threat of a strike that has now got WW back to wanting to talk again .
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 15:16
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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747-436

...So from this moment any strike can only take place between Feb 29th & 20th March...

I think the wording of the legislation is that industrial action must commence within those dates.

I don't think it requires it to be conducted or concluded within those dates.

In other words, provided a minimum of 7 days notice of industrial action was given to BA, no later than 13 March, and that industrial action actually commenced no later than 20 March, any industrial action could then legally continue indefinitely.


...So at the moment it won't directly affect the T5 opening on 27th March...

From a legal point of view, I don't think it is something one can discount at present. What will actually happen, I haven't a clue.

Any of M'learned Friends reading this care to comment on the relevant TU law?

Regards

Bellerophon
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 15:54
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Bellerophon, I stand corrected.

So obviously it could affect the opening of T5 if it were to commence on say 19th of March and continue from there.

Or for example could they announce a 2 day strike for 19/20 March and then another 2 days a week later and so on and so on. As long as the actual notification took place before the end of the 28 day period?

Lets hope it doesn't get to that!
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 16:39
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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'It is a shame that customers are affected, nature of the beast i'm afraid. What you don't realise is that the crew are not looking for your support'.

Funny that ,where do you think the pilots wages come from ?
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 16:42
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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I feel sorry for the holiday-makers too but if you are looking for someone to blame, direct your anger at BA Management. Willie Walsh is solely responsible for the current state of affairs with his no-negotiation stance and he has had months to change his approach.

My personal feeling is the pilots should have started striking next week not leave the management more time to come up with a smoke and mirrors way out of their intransigence.

Regards

Orion Man
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 16:48
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Funny that ,where do you think the pilots wages come from ?
Well as I don't recall passing my hat around for tips at the end of each flight I guess my wages come from BA, just like Willies do. Maybe he's got an interest in resolving the dispute too.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 16:49
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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If you can think of a way to secure my future terms and conditions without needing to go on strike (something that BALPA have not already thought of), my colleagues and I (and no doubt BA management) would be delighted to hear it.
So what exactly is specially magic about BA pilots that their employment and Ts&Cs should be protected? - the rest of the world's workforce hasn't had that luxury for decades.

Ticket sales are down how much exactly since the ballot result was announced? - going on strike is a dinosaur practice in a dinosaur industry, and pissing off the customers just brings the end of the gravy train that much closer.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 16:53
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Whats so special about your pay Gertrude? I'll stick my neck out and say if the boss told you you were taking a 30% pay cut you'd protest. Nothing like a bit of hypocrisy.
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 17:02
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Whats so special about your pay Gertrude?
Not a lot. I haven't yet been able to push my hourly rate back up to what it was before the dot.com crash, not now that I'm having to compete on price with Indian outsourcing companies for each piece of work.

That's the real world.

How come BA doesn't mostly have Indian pilots anyway?
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 17:06
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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The good news is the Indians don't have enough of their own Pilots!
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Old 22nd Feb 2008, 17:07
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Because they can't work here and they don't have enough pilots in their home market to meet domestic demand, let alone coming to the UK. That's the real world as you like to put it, supply and demand. Now, which part of the dot com boom reflected reality? All that work put into companies that generated lots of hype but no profit. IT sector wages were artificially inflated to an unsustainable level as everyone jumped onto the bandwagon. As I sit back and watch my company report excellent profits and record breaking profit margins I wonder whether me wages are artificially high.
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