Wrongly accused 9/11 case pilot can claim damages
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Where to now?...
Certainly Sallyann this guy appears to deserve better than is being suggested at the moment but I have to ask do we really know the whole truth? Unfortunately the lawyers on both sides now have it. And you know what they get up to to protect the interest of their client! I am afraid the parties will be seeking hard to find just cause as to why he should be fully compensated and contrarily why he should not - or at least modestly. Nasty business unless he genuinely is absolutely clean on all the records he submitted for his licence etc. etc. Nobody wins here. Sad but a fact of life.
Justice, I am afraid is relative.
Justice, I am afraid is relative.
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I think a bit of clarification is required here. As far as I am aware this chap was a student at Four Forces at the time he was arrested and was not a line pilot with any airline. A question to consider is how many of the students with this company in 2001 have managed to gain employment? There certainly isn't any guarantees of employment in this world, Would he have been called for interview, would he have passed an interview or sim assessment?
I agree the poor chap has had a very hard time but these issues will need to be considered in any compensation claim.
As a side note Four Forces went bust very soon after 9/11, he may well have ended up like a lot of us. Unable to afford to finish training due to the company taking his money into liquidation. I believe no students got a penny back on the money they had paid.
I agree the poor chap has had a very hard time but these issues will need to be considered in any compensation claim.
As a side note Four Forces went bust very soon after 9/11, he may well have ended up like a lot of us. Unable to afford to finish training due to the company taking his money into liquidation. I believe no students got a penny back on the money they had paid.
interpreter
I think you are suggesting 'no smoke without fire'. If there is any evidence against him it would most certainly have been brought up in court or leaked to the papers in order to weaken his case. In the absence of even a rumour one can only assume that he is totally innocent.
plod
You make a valid point about his career prospects, and the court must make a judgement about his chances of getting a lucrative job. His first bid seems to be for 'millions' and he will certainly have to compromise.
I think you are suggesting 'no smoke without fire'. If there is any evidence against him it would most certainly have been brought up in court or leaked to the papers in order to weaken his case. In the absence of even a rumour one can only assume that he is totally innocent.
plod
You make a valid point about his career prospects, and the court must make a judgement about his chances of getting a lucrative job. His first bid seems to be for 'millions' and he will certainly have to compromise.
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Yes Plod sounds as though that is the case.
Whilst it would seem he isn't an airline pilot, from what we know, been put into prison and for his future career to be ruined is certainly a valid reason for giving the bloke some compensation. If he is continuously blacklisted by all airliners then the money he has put in, all the hardwork has been for nothing and his dream of flying commercially is ruined.
Yes he may well have not flown for an airline but at the minute a possible future where he is flying for a living does not exist.
Whilst it would seem he isn't an airline pilot, from what we know, been put into prison and for his future career to be ruined is certainly a valid reason for giving the bloke some compensation. If he is continuously blacklisted by all airliners then the money he has put in, all the hardwork has been for nothing and his dream of flying commercially is ruined.
Yes he may well have not flown for an airline but at the minute a possible future where he is flying for a living does not exist.
Some of the contributions here are astonishing. The question is not whether Mr. Raissi is not, could not have become, or indeed has any likelihood of ever working as a professional pilot, it is what compensation he should receive for an outrageous injustice. It should be recalled that if at the time he was originally arrested the current legislation was in force, where any request for extradition by the US government is routinely implemented without demur, he would currently be residing in Gitmo - probably after spending a few months undergoing "robust interrogation" (aka torture) somewhere discreet. This would have certainly brought him into contact with some genuine jihadi scumb@gs as well as some of the other poor s0ds who have ended up there as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, as we now know only too well. What an experience like that could do to someone innocent of these accusations it isn't hard to imagine.
I detect the implication in many of these posts that there is something still slightly "tainted" about Mr. Raissi. How likely is it that if there was, that he would have been allowed to walk away (eventually)? None, I would suggest. I hope he is appropriately compensated for the frightening incompetence he has been subjected to. His chances of getting a job as a pilot have not been enhanced by these events, to put it mildly. But at least he's still alive, which is more than can be said for Jean Charles de Menezes.
I detect the implication in many of these posts that there is something still slightly "tainted" about Mr. Raissi. How likely is it that if there was, that he would have been allowed to walk away (eventually)? None, I would suggest. I hope he is appropriately compensated for the frightening incompetence he has been subjected to. His chances of getting a job as a pilot have not been enhanced by these events, to put it mildly. But at least he's still alive, which is more than can be said for Jean Charles de Menezes.
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Thank you, skridlov, for your succinct post.
Let's not forget that Mr Raissi has always declared that his primary aim is to be able to return to flying rather than be awarded compensation for being unjustly excluded.
Let's not forget that Mr Raissi has always declared that his primary aim is to be able to return to flying rather than be awarded compensation for being unjustly excluded.
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What is the truth?
Sallyann. No I am not suggesting that there is no smoke without fire but with the lawyers involved now anybody - on either side - who is not like "Caesar's wife" is going to find any minor misdemeanour dragged out into the open.
Unfortuntely it would best if it could all be over quickly but I am afraid now it will be drawn out and all the time he might have difficulty finding a post.
Unfortuntely it would best if it could all be over quickly but I am afraid now it will be drawn out and all the time he might have difficulty finding a post.
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It was at USA's insistance innit?
Sue the american government too!
And don't be too greedy,they're in recession.
The best next thing after compensation for that pilot to do,get a bus TR if not current on none,try any gulf airline and settle there if employed.
Sue the american government too!
And don't be too greedy,they're in recession.
The best next thing after compensation for that pilot to do,get a bus TR if not current on none,try any gulf airline and settle there if employed.
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And they've dragged his compensation case out for another two years...
From the Guardian: Court sets deadline for Straw to settle case of 9/11 suspect Lotfi Raissi
From the Guardian: Court sets deadline for Straw to settle case of 9/11 suspect Lotfi Raissi
The justice secretary, Jack Straw, was ordered by a court yesterday to announce whether the government accepts responsibility for one of the UK's longest-standing miscarriages of justice.
The court of appeal gave Straw 28 days to decide whether Lotfi Raissi, a pilot wrongly accused of involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, is entitled to compensation from the government.
The decision on whether to pay damages to Raissi, who spent almost four months in a high-security prison after the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington DC, had been subject to an "inordinate delay". It was noted that Straw accepted the delay had been "deeply regrettable".
Raissi, an Algerian living in the UK, was the first person to be arrested after the 9/11 attacks. Raissi, 27, was accused of being the "lead" instructor of the 9/11 hijackers, and was held in Belmarsh high security prison awaiting extradition to the US.
Ministers were forced to consider his claim for damages after a court of appeal ruling last year found there was evidence Scotland Yard and the Crown Prosecution Service had circumvented "the rule of English law" in what judges believed would amount to a serious abuse of process.
Raissi, 35, still lives in the UK but says he has been unable to rebuild his life.
The Guardian last year obtained classified documents produced by the FBI and anti-terrorist officials in the UK that showed British prosecutors failed to disclose crucial evidence to the courts.
Despite a plea from the FBI not to arrest Raissi, anti-terrorist officers from the Metropolitan police stormed his house in Berkshire on 21 September 2001.
Rather than release Raissi when it emerged there was insufficient evidence to charge him, law enforcement officials in the UK colluded with the FBI to obtain a warrant for his extradition. The warrant was requested on charges relating to an allegation that he failed to disclose his knee surgery in a pilot application. In court, the CPS said the pilot application allegations were mere "holding charges".
The Ministry of Justice said: "We explained to the court how the ministry had dealt with the case, and the reasons for this, and our regret over the delay.
"The justice secretary will now make a decision on Mr Raissi's application as quickly as possible."
The court of appeal gave Straw 28 days to decide whether Lotfi Raissi, a pilot wrongly accused of involvement in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, is entitled to compensation from the government.
The decision on whether to pay damages to Raissi, who spent almost four months in a high-security prison after the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington DC, had been subject to an "inordinate delay". It was noted that Straw accepted the delay had been "deeply regrettable".
Raissi, an Algerian living in the UK, was the first person to be arrested after the 9/11 attacks. Raissi, 27, was accused of being the "lead" instructor of the 9/11 hijackers, and was held in Belmarsh high security prison awaiting extradition to the US.
Ministers were forced to consider his claim for damages after a court of appeal ruling last year found there was evidence Scotland Yard and the Crown Prosecution Service had circumvented "the rule of English law" in what judges believed would amount to a serious abuse of process.
Raissi, 35, still lives in the UK but says he has been unable to rebuild his life.
The Guardian last year obtained classified documents produced by the FBI and anti-terrorist officials in the UK that showed British prosecutors failed to disclose crucial evidence to the courts.
Despite a plea from the FBI not to arrest Raissi, anti-terrorist officers from the Metropolitan police stormed his house in Berkshire on 21 September 2001.
Rather than release Raissi when it emerged there was insufficient evidence to charge him, law enforcement officials in the UK colluded with the FBI to obtain a warrant for his extradition. The warrant was requested on charges relating to an allegation that he failed to disclose his knee surgery in a pilot application. In court, the CPS said the pilot application allegations were mere "holding charges".
The Ministry of Justice said: "We explained to the court how the ministry had dealt with the case, and the reasons for this, and our regret over the delay.
"The justice secretary will now make a decision on Mr Raissi's application as quickly as possible."
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Kinda makes one ashamed to hold British nationality, lucky for him he wasn't rushing to catch a tube train when they decided to arrest him.
In between that trigger happy episode, and this total lack of fair play, we are becoming less and less "British" and reacting more and more like that "other" nation.
Shame really.
It will be next to impossible given the passage of time , and the current job situation, for the guy to get back where he was, even more reason that he should receive "substantial" compensation, but I guess that will be another 8and a half years down the line
In between that trigger happy episode, and this total lack of fair play, we are becoming less and less "British" and reacting more and more like that "other" nation.
Shame really.
It will be next to impossible given the passage of time , and the current job situation, for the guy to get back where he was, even more reason that he should receive "substantial" compensation, but I guess that will be another 8and a half years down the line
Quote:
Raissi, 35, still lives in the UK but says he has been unable to rebuild his life.
My first reaction: "Get a grip! Aren't you just milking it, to screw as much compensation out of the system as possible?"
On second thoughts: "If Peter Burkill's struggling to get pilot employment, what chance has this guy got?"
"9/11" was a heinous act directed at our freedom, and we must not let the terrorists win. But by our over-reaction, perhaps, they already have?
Raissi, 35, still lives in the UK but says he has been unable to rebuild his life.
My first reaction: "Get a grip! Aren't you just milking it, to screw as much compensation out of the system as possible?"
On second thoughts: "If Peter Burkill's struggling to get pilot employment, what chance has this guy got?"
"9/11" was a heinous act directed at our freedom, and we must not let the terrorists win. But by our over-reaction, perhaps, they already have?
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To a degree its a mute point what his chances of employment are now , if you assume he was determined from just before his arrest onwards to get a job he may well have done so . That chance he may have had is gone now and for that he needs to be compensated. The BA Captain of Heathrow fame also casts a very low probability that even with a letter saying hes not a terrorist he will get a job I mean think of the interview... " Um i was locked up for months and finally after 8 years i managed to get them to admit i wasnt a terrorist " ... only in Utopia would an airline touch such an application..
However to the poster suggesting he " get a grip ".. think about it a moment .. It is not the case that he was found "not guilty" ( charges were dismissed ) but appears quite likely that the twats in charge of his case at the CPS knew they may be on dodge ground and covered it up and kept him in Jail. IF that is the case and just for that alone ( imagine you were in his shoes ) he is entitled to compensation. Officials got it very wrong ( CPS / Home office ) and destroyed the mans life it appears.. knee surgery indeed..
However to the poster suggesting he " get a grip ".. think about it a moment .. It is not the case that he was found "not guilty" ( charges were dismissed ) but appears quite likely that the twats in charge of his case at the CPS knew they may be on dodge ground and covered it up and kept him in Jail. IF that is the case and just for that alone ( imagine you were in his shoes ) he is entitled to compensation. Officials got it very wrong ( CPS / Home office ) and destroyed the mans life it appears.. knee surgery indeed..
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Some times you just have to accept the situation. In law enforcement you can often get information that raises more than mere suspicion on a person. The problem is that you sometimes cannot use the information in court or even mention it because other people may be at risk.
It is a sad fact that this guy was arrested, put in prison and his career is in tatters. But he is alive and so are many other people, including pilots, who fly every day. Difficult decisions have to be made and they will affect others to varying degrees. Flying is still a compromise.
There may and may not be susbstance behind the claims against him but the truth is unlikely to ever be known, and for very good reason.
This is why we have terrorists. They play on these difficult situations and all the media hype.
There is no easy answer to this. If he fights it he is wrong, if he wins it he is wrong. He is just another victim of terrorism and should look on the bright side - he is alive and has his health, now he needs to move on.
It is a sad fact that this guy was arrested, put in prison and his career is in tatters. But he is alive and so are many other people, including pilots, who fly every day. Difficult decisions have to be made and they will affect others to varying degrees. Flying is still a compromise.
There may and may not be susbstance behind the claims against him but the truth is unlikely to ever be known, and for very good reason.
This is why we have terrorists. They play on these difficult situations and all the media hype.
There is no easy answer to this. If he fights it he is wrong, if he wins it he is wrong. He is just another victim of terrorism and should look on the bright side - he is alive and has his health, now he needs to move on.
Looks like Lofti has been exhonorated Reuters
No winners here. One lost career and decade of nightmare. One HUGE bill to me the taxpayer.
Quite unimpressed that extradition could be tried on the basis of medical records too.
No winners here. One lost career and decade of nightmare. One HUGE bill to me the taxpayer.
Quite unimpressed that extradition could be tried on the basis of medical records too.
