BA 15% pay cut
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Guvnor - you are a LOONEY and YOU know IT.
With so many people saying so, you're in the minority and that's a fact.
I would have thought that at least changing your username and returning as someone else would be a good start. It seems though that you may after all be a real head case and nothing will make you see sense, or when time is/should be up.
With so many people saying so, you're in the minority and that's a fact.
I would have thought that at least changing your username and returning as someone else would be a good start. It seems though that you may after all be a real head case and nothing will make you see sense, or when time is/should be up.
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Fellow Aviators,
Stop wasting your energy. This "GUV" is
nothing but a frustrated,pilot hating,
("I wish I made as much as they do"), lonely
airline CEO wannabe!
Fly safe!
Stop wasting your energy. This "GUV" is
nothing but a frustrated,pilot hating,
("I wish I made as much as they do"), lonely
airline CEO wannabe!
Fly safe!
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This is a hotbed of issues,viewpoints,and a barrel-load of vitriol aimed at you-know-who ,not surprisingly!
The point is the topic that was started originally, and this is what should be debated here.
Like tempermental 4 year olds, some people are best left alone until they come to their senses (i fear a very long wait....zzz....)
Ignore the guvs comments, he obviously puts them their to get people to rise to the bait.
Whether BA or not, I am sure that pilots,engineers and cabin crew alike are in the majority of cases skillful and deserving, and it really shouldn't come to a question of who deserves most praise / salary.
It's not really a question of who does the best/better job ,more a question of why you are already there - because you have chosen to follow that line - - Most pilots/engineers would probably not want to be cabin crew , but I'm certain that most cabin crew would not want to be pilots/engineers !!
If people really are unhappy with their terms and conditions they will leave eventually anyaway.
I have a very strong feeling that Rod E and these other managers have taken a paycut at this early stage of this current crisis, in anticipation of later asking other employees of BA to do the same. I really would not be at all surprised.
When placed with the emotive question of will you take a cut - or - see the company sink into a disastrous financial situation,
You'd really have to ask yourself whether a lower salary or no salary at all is preferable.
I like anyone else, would not want to see this happen to anybody at any airline(I was with Air Europe until that fateful day in 91, and in retrospect would much rather have lost part of my income than the life and times I had there.)
As long as the BA accounting is honest, and inefficiencies are rooted out big time, things should fall back onto an even keel,
world events allowing,and passenger confidence being restored.
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Anti-ice ]
The point is the topic that was started originally, and this is what should be debated here.
Like tempermental 4 year olds, some people are best left alone until they come to their senses (i fear a very long wait....zzz....)
Ignore the guvs comments, he obviously puts them their to get people to rise to the bait.
Whether BA or not, I am sure that pilots,engineers and cabin crew alike are in the majority of cases skillful and deserving, and it really shouldn't come to a question of who deserves most praise / salary.
It's not really a question of who does the best/better job ,more a question of why you are already there - because you have chosen to follow that line - - Most pilots/engineers would probably not want to be cabin crew , but I'm certain that most cabin crew would not want to be pilots/engineers !!
If people really are unhappy with their terms and conditions they will leave eventually anyaway.
I have a very strong feeling that Rod E and these other managers have taken a paycut at this early stage of this current crisis, in anticipation of later asking other employees of BA to do the same. I really would not be at all surprised.
When placed with the emotive question of will you take a cut - or - see the company sink into a disastrous financial situation,
You'd really have to ask yourself whether a lower salary or no salary at all is preferable.
I like anyone else, would not want to see this happen to anybody at any airline(I was with Air Europe until that fateful day in 91, and in retrospect would much rather have lost part of my income than the life and times I had there.)
As long as the BA accounting is honest, and inefficiencies are rooted out big time, things should fall back onto an even keel,
world events allowing,and passenger confidence being restored.
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Anti-ice ]
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I had a conversation with a pilot who had taken a pay cut in the early nineties to help out the airline he was with.
He said he didn't like having to take the pay cut (who would?) but that he wasn't stupid..."85%of my original pay is better than 0%"
Enough said. It isn't pretty, but it's better than unemployment.
He said he didn't like having to take the pay cut (who would?) but that he wasn't stupid..."85%of my original pay is better than 0%"
Enough said. It isn't pretty, but it's better than unemployment.
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15% of staff pay is a drop in the ocean of BA turnover. The way to handle difficulty is not to attack staff benefits. Sack what you need to, keep the rest well motivated. BA is pouring money away in wasteful areas- wonderful shiny HQs, unnecessary buildings all over the place, thousands of useless, non productive staff. Until they attack the key waste areas, BA will lurch from crisis to crisis.
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Would ROD have given himself and his "back door boys" a 15% pay cut IF HE WAS earning 140 K per annum I DO NOT THINK SO!His pay cut is more than the average flight crew pay per annum.
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In my humble opinion the cabin crew, the flight crew and the engineers all do a spectacular job ():-)
However, if you want a sobering comparison:
Cost of training pilot = £50K/£60K
Cost of training ATCO = £330K
Our work load doesn't go down, it goes up (dramatically every year)! So when you are all either flying, or looking after people down the back, spare a thought for the air traffic controllers who are prematurely going grey and are giving their all to make sure you get from A to B safely ():-)
If you want to see underpaid then go to LATCC, TC or LHR
However, if you want a sobering comparison:
Cost of training pilot = £50K/£60K
Cost of training ATCO = £330K
Our work load doesn't go down, it goes up (dramatically every year)! So when you are all either flying, or looking after people down the back, spare a thought for the air traffic controllers who are prematurely going grey and are giving their all to make sure you get from A to B safely ():-)
If you want to see underpaid then go to LATCC, TC or LHR
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Why is it that BA Concorde pilots (as an example) fly a LHR-JFK sector (3.5 hours) and then have an overnight stay in NY?
Some charter pilots are given an GLA-Tenerife + delays + return trip which can end up being a 12-13 hour day.
And why do SST captains get paid more?
Until BA looks at every aspect of its operation - operations, management, sales, marketing, engineering and starts tearing down the mini-empires, back slapping and inefficiency they will never return to the days of being the 'world's most profitable airline'.
Some charter pilots are given an GLA-Tenerife + delays + return trip which can end up being a 12-13 hour day.
And why do SST captains get paid more?
Until BA looks at every aspect of its operation - operations, management, sales, marketing, engineering and starts tearing down the mini-empires, back slapping and inefficiency they will never return to the days of being the 'world's most profitable airline'.
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Bahrainlad
Get your head out of the camel's toush and inform yourself on the Concorde operation. Then you'll know you don't do a turn around in JFK.
Guv
I've been meaning to ask you for a while: What do you actually do for living ?
Your post on another thread about how drastically pilots pay was going to be reduced, although a bit chilling, was most amusing. Wishfull thinking my pet !
The best bit though was SAS taking over other airlines. This one really made my wooden horse roll on its back. Quite a sight !
As to abolishing seniority ? Guv, wake up. The airlines have a lot more to gain with seniority, not the pilots. Were they not losing so much by leaving, pilots would be moving around like crazy.
You are obviously not that familiar with safety, so let me enlighten you a tat. It's by leaning on stable pilot's force that you ensure compagny safety culture will be safeguarded. Do you think Emirates would have made it despite all its limitless cash ? It's attracted well trained and motivated professionals and given them salaries, carreer prospects and working conditions to make them want to stay.
I think I've got Prince Maktoum fax number somewhere. He could teach you a thing or 2, like how to get an airline started for one thing.
By the way, 15 % pay cut ? Sure 85 % is better than zilch, but you want to have a little reminder in the contract that it comes back to ante once the crisis is over. Lufthansa pilots had that in their 1992 contract and it took them quite a lot of energy to get it back.
Guv
I was tossing between litlle dwarfs with a windmill and a mouldy 1011 for my garden. What do you think ? Would be great for the kids.
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: wallabie ]
Get your head out of the camel's toush and inform yourself on the Concorde operation. Then you'll know you don't do a turn around in JFK.
Guv
I've been meaning to ask you for a while: What do you actually do for living ?
Your post on another thread about how drastically pilots pay was going to be reduced, although a bit chilling, was most amusing. Wishfull thinking my pet !
The best bit though was SAS taking over other airlines. This one really made my wooden horse roll on its back. Quite a sight !
As to abolishing seniority ? Guv, wake up. The airlines have a lot more to gain with seniority, not the pilots. Were they not losing so much by leaving, pilots would be moving around like crazy.
You are obviously not that familiar with safety, so let me enlighten you a tat. It's by leaning on stable pilot's force that you ensure compagny safety culture will be safeguarded. Do you think Emirates would have made it despite all its limitless cash ? It's attracted well trained and motivated professionals and given them salaries, carreer prospects and working conditions to make them want to stay.
I think I've got Prince Maktoum fax number somewhere. He could teach you a thing or 2, like how to get an airline started for one thing.
By the way, 15 % pay cut ? Sure 85 % is better than zilch, but you want to have a little reminder in the contract that it comes back to ante once the crisis is over. Lufthansa pilots had that in their 1992 contract and it took them quite a lot of energy to get it back.
Guv
I was tossing between litlle dwarfs with a windmill and a mouldy 1011 for my garden. What do you think ? Would be great for the kids.
[ 13 October 2001: Message edited by: wallabie ]
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"At the end of the day, the Captain is ultimately responsible for the aircraft and all on board, so no argument he has the most responsibility and should therefore be paid the most. But should he be paid any more than someone making decisions that affect the company's financial/commercial future? I can't see that. There are plenty of jobs that carry at least as much risk and involve as much training - for far less pay.
Let me put it this way - can anyone come up with an overwhelming argument against these comments - preferrably with facts to back up their position?
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Guv
Mr Brugisser in his wisdom, ran a once glamourous airline right into the ground.
He was discreetly wisked away in the finest Swiss corporate maner with enough cash to shut him up until the " big crunch " hits the universe. Swissair Captains during that time and until it stopped never flinched. It was always their name, nor Brugisser's, that was on the flight plan taking full responsability and eventually the heat when things got hairy, while Mr Brugisser was sipping his 3rd daïquiri at the Zürich Mövenpick.
I take it this is your idea of corporate sense of responsability ? Then keep those 1011 on the ground. Can they fly by the way ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can a Captain expect a bundle of cash if he crashes his aircraft and ruins the life of a few hundred ?
We are held accountable every time we get on board and should we stuff up no one is going to offer us another well paid job " with the boys ". That my dear commands respect; a word that has no meaning for you.
Let me put it this way - can anyone come up with an overwhelming argument against these comments - preferrably with facts to back up their position?
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Guv
Mr Brugisser in his wisdom, ran a once glamourous airline right into the ground.
He was discreetly wisked away in the finest Swiss corporate maner with enough cash to shut him up until the " big crunch " hits the universe. Swissair Captains during that time and until it stopped never flinched. It was always their name, nor Brugisser's, that was on the flight plan taking full responsability and eventually the heat when things got hairy, while Mr Brugisser was sipping his 3rd daïquiri at the Zürich Mövenpick.
I take it this is your idea of corporate sense of responsability ? Then keep those 1011 on the ground. Can they fly by the way ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can a Captain expect a bundle of cash if he crashes his aircraft and ruins the life of a few hundred ?
We are held accountable every time we get on board and should we stuff up no one is going to offer us another well paid job " with the boys ". That my dear commands respect; a word that has no meaning for you.
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GUV..How many postings???
Did you know that if every posting takes you five mins to create, and many of your take much more, you have spent 10.5555 days of your sad life posting on this site..
I think you need help...
Did you know that if every posting takes you five mins to create, and many of your take much more, you have spent 10.5555 days of your sad life posting on this site..
I think you need help...
Mistrust in Management
So the B.A. management lead the way with a 15% cut.
Next they attack the workforce with pay cuts.
Of course managers are on 'performance related pay', so they now appear to have performed very well from a beancounters perspective. Their 15% comes back in spades!
Ever been had?!
Regards
Exeng
Next they attack the workforce with pay cuts.
Of course managers are on 'performance related pay', so they now appear to have performed very well from a beancounters perspective. Their 15% comes back in spades!
Ever been had?!
Regards
Exeng
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Wallabie - I'll have a go.
There are many jobs within the airline industry which carry as much financial risk as the Captain does, but with less pay and training. However there are very few jobs that carry as much responsibility for human life as that of the Captain, and of those that do, only the flight crew will live or die as a result of their actions. Anybody who is not on board the aircraft can choose to walk away from a problem, or take time to think about it. It may be detrimental to their career, but the option is there. Those on board the aircraft do not have the first option, and the latter is often in very short supply. In those short moments they will preserve the airlines priceless reputation for safety, or they may cause financial disaster far greater than any single decision taken in an office. Therefore, the Captain deserves to be paid more.
Bahrain lad-
If BA could robustly crew day trips on Concorde they'd have done it a long time ago.
Charter guys do indeed fly 13 hour days, as do many long haul pilots. But which aircraft do you think is most demanding to fly - a glass cockpit 757 doing M0.78, or a clockwork, 3 crew, 4 engine supersonic M2.0 sixties jet?
Finally, due to the seniority of the fleet, I think you'll find that most crew on the SST take a very hefty pay cut to fly it. Most do it for love (yes there are people in BA who enjoy flying), and a few do it for prestige.
There are many jobs within the airline industry which carry as much financial risk as the Captain does, but with less pay and training. However there are very few jobs that carry as much responsibility for human life as that of the Captain, and of those that do, only the flight crew will live or die as a result of their actions. Anybody who is not on board the aircraft can choose to walk away from a problem, or take time to think about it. It may be detrimental to their career, but the option is there. Those on board the aircraft do not have the first option, and the latter is often in very short supply. In those short moments they will preserve the airlines priceless reputation for safety, or they may cause financial disaster far greater than any single decision taken in an office. Therefore, the Captain deserves to be paid more.
Bahrain lad-
If BA could robustly crew day trips on Concorde they'd have done it a long time ago.
Charter guys do indeed fly 13 hour days, as do many long haul pilots. But which aircraft do you think is most demanding to fly - a glass cockpit 757 doing M0.78, or a clockwork, 3 crew, 4 engine supersonic M2.0 sixties jet?
Finally, due to the seniority of the fleet, I think you'll find that most crew on the SST take a very hefty pay cut to fly it. Most do it for love (yes there are people in BA who enjoy flying), and a few do it for prestige.