BA 15% pay cut
Guest
Posts: n/a
Guys'
Come on now, while I hate pull pprune seniority out of the hat it should be blatently obvious to all but the most recent ppruners by now that guv is a wind up merchant and as such sould be completely ignored.
To bite at many ridiculous statements that he spouts only enables him to post further idiotic statements there by getting him closer to his by now obvious target of 3000 posts.
Of course the powers that be could always reset his post counter to zero on completion of his 2999th post.
However the danger then becomes that he would attempt to achieve said 3000 posts again
Come on now, while I hate pull pprune seniority out of the hat it should be blatently obvious to all but the most recent ppruners by now that guv is a wind up merchant and as such sould be completely ignored.
To bite at many ridiculous statements that he spouts only enables him to post further idiotic statements there by getting him closer to his by now obvious target of 3000 posts.
Of course the powers that be could always reset his post counter to zero on completion of his 2999th post.
However the danger then becomes that he would attempt to achieve said 3000 posts again
Guest
Posts: n/a
CSDs/Pursers have a great deal of experience under their belts and are fully responsible for the lives of all of their passengers - all the more so with the new security regs requiring flight deck to remain behind a locked door at all times. In the event of an emergency landing followed by a fire, the flight deck bods are first out through their own exits, leaving the crew to deal with the pax. Fair enough, but then the person/persons in charge of the cabin crew members should be suitably remunerated for it!
And of course their responsibility doesn't stop just with the passengers - they are also responsible for any monies collected through the sale of on board goods; catering, etc etc.
At the end of the day, the Captain is ultimately responsible for the aircraft and all on board, so no argument he has the most responsibility and should therefore be paid the most. But should he be paid any more than someone making decisions that affect the company's financial/commercial future? I can't see that. There are plenty of jobs that carry at least as much risk and involve as much training - for far less pay.
Let me put it this way - can anyone come up with an overwhelming argument against these comments - preferrably with facts to back up their position?
And of course their responsibility doesn't stop just with the passengers - they are also responsible for any monies collected through the sale of on board goods; catering, etc etc.
At the end of the day, the Captain is ultimately responsible for the aircraft and all on board, so no argument he has the most responsibility and should therefore be paid the most. But should he be paid any more than someone making decisions that affect the company's financial/commercial future? I can't see that. There are plenty of jobs that carry at least as much risk and involve as much training - for far less pay.
Let me put it this way - can anyone come up with an overwhelming argument against these comments - preferrably with facts to back up their position?
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
guvnor - last week you recommended not to buy BA shares when they were around £1.15, within a few hours they had risen to £1.50 (today, 179p). I read you say CSD/Purser responsibilty comparable to FO - what on earth are you talking about?
I've read your posts over a period of time, and quite rightly are entitled to your own opinion. However, what really grates is that you speak in a tone that implies everything you say is a fact; and mainly, what I have noticed is that in fact you speak complete drivel. Your constant attack on pilots (and at the present time, quite distateful) underscores your joalousy and undermines your objectivity. Finally, the fact that you obviously spend your whole life on this forum, indicates that you are a seriously deranged freak. Suggestion - harness your bitterness and envy into a more worthy cause - I bid you farewell.
Desk Pilot - can I get the managers to work at the times I keep puttiing my body through and see if they need the extra days off? Longhaul flying is detrimental to my bodies health, I had some time off last year for an operation and the difference in well-being at the end of that was immense (no more feeling as if i'm on another planet, no more constant colds}. We fly to the hotspots of the world and we are the final barrier to any disaster (reponsibility and accountability) in an environment that does not always allow a meeting to resolve. All things considered I think that our pay is not very good (140k is the few, not the norm). I know many, many people earning more than myself. Finally, safety is a priority for everyone, and particurlary now, many of the public are petrified of flying - I think that they would like to know they have a couple of well paid professionals trying their best to get from A to B, not some monkey on wages they could get driving a cab instead.
Again guvnor - i've never in my life met a person with intelligence who can't see the vast differnce between our job and the cabin crew - what does that say about your intelligence?
I've read your posts over a period of time, and quite rightly are entitled to your own opinion. However, what really grates is that you speak in a tone that implies everything you say is a fact; and mainly, what I have noticed is that in fact you speak complete drivel. Your constant attack on pilots (and at the present time, quite distateful) underscores your joalousy and undermines your objectivity. Finally, the fact that you obviously spend your whole life on this forum, indicates that you are a seriously deranged freak. Suggestion - harness your bitterness and envy into a more worthy cause - I bid you farewell.
Desk Pilot - can I get the managers to work at the times I keep puttiing my body through and see if they need the extra days off? Longhaul flying is detrimental to my bodies health, I had some time off last year for an operation and the difference in well-being at the end of that was immense (no more feeling as if i'm on another planet, no more constant colds}. We fly to the hotspots of the world and we are the final barrier to any disaster (reponsibility and accountability) in an environment that does not always allow a meeting to resolve. All things considered I think that our pay is not very good (140k is the few, not the norm). I know many, many people earning more than myself. Finally, safety is a priority for everyone, and particurlary now, many of the public are petrified of flying - I think that they would like to know they have a couple of well paid professionals trying their best to get from A to B, not some monkey on wages they could get driving a cab instead.
Again guvnor - i've never in my life met a person with intelligence who can't see the vast differnce between our job and the cabin crew - what does that say about your intelligence?
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Merstham, Redhill
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Desk Pilot
Just to clear up a small point that you mentioned concerning the 8 day Barbados trip. You should go to debating lessons because this ridiculous angle of attack you have chosen is an own goal, mate: Pilots do not make schedules; they fly them as organised by those who are hired to sit at a desk and dream of being anywhere but where they currently are. Neither can you use the FTL argument because the 777 does it in four days.
You obviously think that pilots have had it too easy for too long (indeed haven't you said as much?). Well, you're entitiled to your opinion, I s'pose, flawed as it is!
Just to clear up a small point that you mentioned concerning the 8 day Barbados trip. You should go to debating lessons because this ridiculous angle of attack you have chosen is an own goal, mate: Pilots do not make schedules; they fly them as organised by those who are hired to sit at a desk and dream of being anywhere but where they currently are. Neither can you use the FTL argument because the 777 does it in four days.
You obviously think that pilots have had it too easy for too long (indeed haven't you said as much?). Well, you're entitiled to your opinion, I s'pose, flawed as it is!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Secret Squirrel,
I think you mistake my sentiments. I do not feel that pilots have had it too good for too long - I realise it is a highly skilled and demanding job which puts considerable strain on both the body and family life and which thus commands a premium salary.
My argument is against those who feel that a professional Manager should have all their perks removed and their salary degraded because they're all a waste of space. I also made the point that of course there is waste and 'fat' in the back office but there also is at the sharp end. Surely you must all realise that this marks the start of an erosion of everyone's terms and conditions and is truly the thin end of the wedge.
If we're not very careful a few lunatics under Bin Laden are going to cause us all a great deal of heartache. I for one am extremely angry about what they have done and the way it has snowballed.
Perhaps we should target our anger at them, not other sections within the airline.
Now where did I put that Harrier!
Desk-pilot
I think you mistake my sentiments. I do not feel that pilots have had it too good for too long - I realise it is a highly skilled and demanding job which puts considerable strain on both the body and family life and which thus commands a premium salary.
My argument is against those who feel that a professional Manager should have all their perks removed and their salary degraded because they're all a waste of space. I also made the point that of course there is waste and 'fat' in the back office but there also is at the sharp end. Surely you must all realise that this marks the start of an erosion of everyone's terms and conditions and is truly the thin end of the wedge.
If we're not very careful a few lunatics under Bin Laden are going to cause us all a great deal of heartache. I for one am extremely angry about what they have done and the way it has snowballed.
Perhaps we should target our anger at them, not other sections within the airline.
Now where did I put that Harrier!
Desk-pilot
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice to see The Guvnor reducing this to a Cabin Crew should get paid more than Flight Crew argument again.
You're not a CSD are you Guv?
You're not a CSD are you Guv?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Funny airforcenone, I was just wondering if the guvnor was a CSD. Would amply explain his FO/CSD pay/responsibility drivel, which I don't think really merits any further comment.
If he is a pilot, and he takes that view of his First Officers, one can only imagine his CRM is lacking to a dangerous extent. That sort of attitude would quickly lead to a P45 in my company.
Sad. Very sad.
If he is a pilot, and he takes that view of his First Officers, one can only imagine his CRM is lacking to a dangerous extent. That sort of attitude would quickly lead to a P45 in my company.
Sad. Very sad.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guv,
You have not replied to my earlier post. Namely; why do you choose to spend your life amongst the people you so dislike and disrespect namely - PILOTS on this forum.
You are the most despicable idiot - because that's what you MUST be - I have come across here EVER!!!!
Why don't you just form a scab and drop off?
Or.... do you enjoy being a masochist????
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Mike-Hunt ]
You have not replied to my earlier post. Namely; why do you choose to spend your life amongst the people you so dislike and disrespect namely - PILOTS on this forum.
You are the most despicable idiot - because that's what you MUST be - I have come across here EVER!!!!
Why don't you just form a scab and drop off?
Or.... do you enjoy being a masochist????
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Mike-Hunt ]
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: South East England
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By God iv'e enjoyed reading all these comments from you guys, really entertaining but at the end of the day it's the poor old engineer who deserves more cash as they are the ones that keep you and that lump of metal up there safe, so stop fighting amongst yourselves and grow up
PLEASE!!
_____________________________________________
Have to raise that one to add.
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: RAMPONE ]
PLEASE!!
_____________________________________________
Have to raise that one to add.
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: RAMPONE ]
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: ENGLAND
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all.
I am relatively new to this site and was directed here due to its informative nature.
As a newcomer to the site i would like to take this opportunity to firstly say "hello", and secondly to question why some people are here in the first place.
Probably a quarter of postings are from people who clearly just want to create tension.
Some people seem to go to a lot of time and trouble to gain usefull "rumours" for the site, to only have abuse posted against them.
Is this adult ??
These people seem to me like the hooligans that pretend to call themselves football fans so that they can create confrontation.
Maybe this is historically what the site is like.
If so then i appologise to you all.
This is a great site which i hope i want to remain a part of.
I am relatively new to this site and was directed here due to its informative nature.
As a newcomer to the site i would like to take this opportunity to firstly say "hello", and secondly to question why some people are here in the first place.
Probably a quarter of postings are from people who clearly just want to create tension.
Some people seem to go to a lot of time and trouble to gain usefull "rumours" for the site, to only have abuse posted against them.
Is this adult ??
These people seem to me like the hooligans that pretend to call themselves football fans so that they can create confrontation.
Maybe this is historically what the site is like.
If so then i appologise to you all.
This is a great site which i hope i want to remain a part of.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real problem is that for too long, BA have had too many people, being paid above market rates, doing too little. In times like these its the innefficient operators like BA who wil hurt the most.
Quite simple really.
Quite simple really.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Banana
On the subject of expensive engineering company cars, i think you'll find that most companies hire cars these days, they don't buy them outright for 20k...The difference in rental between a turbo nutter golf and a
1.6 Astra is not a lot and certainly would not add up to 4.8 million..
Perhaps the easiest method for BA to save some dosh from crew rather than crew numbers would be to reduce the allowances / rates for Overtime, failing that you could do what the BA Managers do, without complaint - put all those extra hours in for nothing!.
On the subject of expensive engineering company cars, i think you'll find that most companies hire cars these days, they don't buy them outright for 20k...The difference in rental between a turbo nutter golf and a
1.6 Astra is not a lot and certainly would not add up to 4.8 million..
Perhaps the easiest method for BA to save some dosh from crew rather than crew numbers would be to reduce the allowances / rates for Overtime, failing that you could do what the BA Managers do, without complaint - put all those extra hours in for nothing!.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, lots of hot air and posturing but no one has come up with any argument as to why captains should not have pay parity with senior managers; FOs with junior managers; and PSRs/CSDs the same as (or slightly more than) FOs.
I do apologise for leaving engineers out of this scenario - I'd place holders of licences with type ratings and A&C plus Multi X or whatever the JAA equivalent is at a middle- management level - between Captains and FOs. Holders of LWTRs around FO level or slightly less. Engineers as I've said many times before are a vital part of the airline business and people who have very sadly been overlooked for too long. A good engineer is worth his/her weight in gold and at the end of the day is what makes flying safe!
I also think that pay rates for cabin crew generally should be substantially increased. I was recently going through some comparisons with pay rates for CC at different airlines and frankly (a) I can't see why they would do it for what they are getting vs the hassle they get from flight deck and the pax at times; and (b) no wonder there's such a high turnover. Perhaps if CC was made more of a 'profession' and considerably better paid then they would be prepared to look upon it as a longer term career than currently seems to be the case for many. As for their pay, let's put it this way - one could chose between a dozen CC or one BA long haul captain!
Incidentally, if anyone can come up with any other industry where the line personnel get paid more (basic pay) than management I'd be interested to hear it!
I do apologise for leaving engineers out of this scenario - I'd place holders of licences with type ratings and A&C plus Multi X or whatever the JAA equivalent is at a middle- management level - between Captains and FOs. Holders of LWTRs around FO level or slightly less. Engineers as I've said many times before are a vital part of the airline business and people who have very sadly been overlooked for too long. A good engineer is worth his/her weight in gold and at the end of the day is what makes flying safe!
I also think that pay rates for cabin crew generally should be substantially increased. I was recently going through some comparisons with pay rates for CC at different airlines and frankly (a) I can't see why they would do it for what they are getting vs the hassle they get from flight deck and the pax at times; and (b) no wonder there's such a high turnover. Perhaps if CC was made more of a 'profession' and considerably better paid then they would be prepared to look upon it as a longer term career than currently seems to be the case for many. As for their pay, let's put it this way - one could chose between a dozen CC or one BA long haul captain!
Incidentally, if anyone can come up with any other industry where the line personnel get paid more (basic pay) than management I'd be interested to hear it!
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: New York
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Guv......will you marry me, I WILL have your children.
Anyway BA is top heavy with managers and do-nothing backroom types.
We are a group of about 120 engineers with about 40, yes, 40 support staff...
Most times when I pass thru LHR they can frequently be spotted playing Solitare or minesweeper.
All very valuable I'm sure!
Love
LP
Anyway BA is top heavy with managers and do-nothing backroom types.
We are a group of about 120 engineers with about 40, yes, 40 support staff...
Most times when I pass thru LHR they can frequently be spotted playing Solitare or minesweeper.
All very valuable I'm sure!
Love
LP
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a BA Psr on worldwide at LGW I'd love to earn the same as an F/O, but I know for a fact that my take home doesn't touch that of an F/O. I admit that we are well paid compared to other UK carriers, but compare us to AF, KL & LH etc etc it's pretty much the same (in fact ex-colleagues who I left at AF work less than I do & earn the same...). As for productivity, the planners in their suits at Waterside aren't known for being the most crew friendly of bods, so an 8 day BGI was obviously the most productive way to crew the flights at the time. As cabin crew we are the only european major to do back to back trips, which boosts productivity no end....and they are killers, just ask any 767 Flight Crew who do the double LGW-JFK-MAN-JFK-LGW trips....
There are a few mega senior C/C who on occasion may top the pay of a junior F/O, but only when the C/C member has done a couple of long range trips & the F/o has been stuck on a month of E coast n/stops or Africas....
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: SussexPSR ]
There are a few mega senior C/C who on occasion may top the pay of a junior F/O, but only when the C/C member has done a couple of long range trips & the F/o has been stuck on a month of E coast n/stops or Africas....
[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: SussexPSR ]