BA 15% pay cut
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OK - how about -
BA crewing to the Gulf
Pilots:
Day 1 - LHR-BAH.
Day 2 - BAH-DOH-BAH (25 mins each way!).
Day 3 - BAH-LHR.
Cabin Crew:
Day 1 - LHR-BAH-DOH.
Day 2 - DOH-BAH-LHR.
Which is the most cost-effective? Would combining the two save money? Beats me.
But please don't misunderstand me. I'm not having a go at pilots. BA need to rip up the old company structure and rebuild it. We've all read on PPRune about 'Rolls Manager Europe' and 'First Chocolate Buyer'. It's been allowed to blossom out of control - mostly due to that prick with the initials RA...
Can't someone do something about it?
BA crewing to the Gulf
Pilots:
Day 1 - LHR-BAH.
Day 2 - BAH-DOH-BAH (25 mins each way!).
Day 3 - BAH-LHR.
Cabin Crew:
Day 1 - LHR-BAH-DOH.
Day 2 - DOH-BAH-LHR.
Which is the most cost-effective? Would combining the two save money? Beats me.
But please don't misunderstand me. I'm not having a go at pilots. BA need to rip up the old company structure and rebuild it. We've all read on PPRune about 'Rolls Manager Europe' and 'First Chocolate Buyer'. It's been allowed to blossom out of control - mostly due to that prick with the initials RA...
Can't someone do something about it?
BahrainLad
We fly when our passengers want to fly, as simple as that, and over the years they have made their wishes very plain.
Westbound - in order to take best advantage of the time change - they want to fly mid-morning (arriving in New York in time for a day's work), or late evening (after a day's work in London, in time for the evening in New York).
Eastbound - with the time change now acting against them - they want to depart JFK early morning (arriving LHR around tea-time, in time for an evening in London), or as late as possible from JFK, arriving just before the night jet ban at LHR (to give them a morning at work in New York, with a full night's sleep in London).
Much as BA would like (and they have tried over the years), there is no way reliably to schedule flight crew for a two sector day on these timings.
They don't!
They take a drop in income when they go on Concorde, as do the F/Os, most of whom give up, or pass up, commands for the chance to fly Concorde. Whatever their reasons for bidding on to the happiest fleet in BA, it certainly isn't money.
All of them could be earning substantially more on other fleets in BA, and currently the re-deployed ones are doing exactly that!
Why is it that BA Concorde pilots (as an example) fly a LHR-JFK sector (3.5 hours) and then have an overnight stay in NY?
Westbound - in order to take best advantage of the time change - they want to fly mid-morning (arriving in New York in time for a day's work), or late evening (after a day's work in London, in time for the evening in New York).
Eastbound - with the time change now acting against them - they want to depart JFK early morning (arriving LHR around tea-time, in time for an evening in London), or as late as possible from JFK, arriving just before the night jet ban at LHR (to give them a morning at work in New York, with a full night's sleep in London).
Much as BA would like (and they have tried over the years), there is no way reliably to schedule flight crew for a two sector day on these timings.
And why do SST captains get paid more?
They take a drop in income when they go on Concorde, as do the F/Os, most of whom give up, or pass up, commands for the chance to fly Concorde. Whatever their reasons for bidding on to the happiest fleet in BA, it certainly isn't money.
All of them could be earning substantially more on other fleets in BA, and currently the re-deployed ones are doing exactly that!
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Hand Solo:
Once again, the dear old engineer is overlooked. I did THREE years of training (compared to the flight crews one), and then have spent the next 3 years busting my hump studying just so that now, at last, I am nearly in a position to certify my maintenance actions as fit to fly. And all for the princely sum of 27 grand a year. Not to forget the night shift in winter, in the pouring rain and snow. So there are a LOT of people with as much responsibility as the flight crew, with much more training, and far less pay and perks. And lets not forget, if you have good, well paid, motivated engineers, these "crisis situations" which you can`t walk away from, might just never happen.........
Once again, the dear old engineer is overlooked. I did THREE years of training (compared to the flight crews one), and then have spent the next 3 years busting my hump studying just so that now, at last, I am nearly in a position to certify my maintenance actions as fit to fly. And all for the princely sum of 27 grand a year. Not to forget the night shift in winter, in the pouring rain and snow. So there are a LOT of people with as much responsibility as the flight crew, with much more training, and far less pay and perks. And lets not forget, if you have good, well paid, motivated engineers, these "crisis situations" which you can`t walk away from, might just never happen.........
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BahrainLad,
I would like to apologise for my previous curt reply to your posting. You caught me on a bad day! I am pleased to see that others have responded, and I concur with their answers, but would like to add that the noise ban at LHR also affects the schedules.
T2
I would like to apologise for my previous curt reply to your posting. You caught me on a bad day! I am pleased to see that others have responded, and I concur with their answers, but would like to add that the noise ban at LHR also affects the schedules.
T2
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You fixed wing bods are lucky.
Try the helicopters, same sh****y weather on the line same 12 hour shifts.
Thought at least your management disscuss your pay rises,after ours caved in to the pilots, they've binned ours.
Can't afford anything more for you bods we have to keep the flyboys happy!!!
Mr Garcia must be related.
Apparently they have a higher cost of living than us spanner ******s, you go into Tesco and there's a shelf marked pilots only, you lot can't afford it.
I wish some of them would just get a life or get lost if they're not happy and stop trying to put our employers out of business
Keep Drinking Heavily!!!!!
Try the helicopters, same sh****y weather on the line same 12 hour shifts.
Thought at least your management disscuss your pay rises,after ours caved in to the pilots, they've binned ours.
Can't afford anything more for you bods we have to keep the flyboys happy!!!
Mr Garcia must be related.
Apparently they have a higher cost of living than us spanner ******s, you go into Tesco and there's a shelf marked pilots only, you lot can't afford it.
I wish some of them would just get a life or get lost if they're not happy and stop trying to put our employers out of business
Keep Drinking Heavily!!!!!
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My apologies for giving the impression that I was having a go at SST pilots - I'm not.
I'm a BA shareholder (have been since privatisation and have stuck with the airline through thick and thin) and love the airline to bits - I never fly anyone else.
However, I'm really disappointed that the current crop of management can't get their act together. Take the fight to Ryanair and Easyjet - you've got the slots, the frequencies and the onboard product to beat them - and turn the airline back into the lean machine that it was after Marshalls 'Night of the Long Knives'.
I'm a BA shareholder (have been since privatisation and have stuck with the airline through thick and thin) and love the airline to bits - I never fly anyone else.
However, I'm really disappointed that the current crop of management can't get their act together. Take the fight to Ryanair and Easyjet - you've got the slots, the frequencies and the onboard product to beat them - and turn the airline back into the lean machine that it was after Marshalls 'Night of the Long Knives'.
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Slickster's 3 point plan to cut costs-
1) Set fire alarms off at Jubilee House/Compass Centre/Waterworld.
2) Buildings evacuated- fire everyone outside not wearing a uniform.
3) Give everyone else nice payrise.
Job done!
1) Set fire alarms off at Jubilee House/Compass Centre/Waterworld.
2) Buildings evacuated- fire everyone outside not wearing a uniform.
3) Give everyone else nice payrise.
Job done!
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On the offchance that someone from BA is reading this I would just like to say, that, having done a longhaul trip as a pax to China
last week I really was impressed as to how HARD they are all trying nowadays. No, seriously. In fact, at the end of the trip the Captain of the aircraft was even standing there, along with the cabin crew, saying goodbye to us all...and with a full load on a 747 that's a lot of people! I really do believe that this downturn is just a momentary 'blip'...so hang on in there guys, the good times will come again.
last week I really was impressed as to how HARD they are all trying nowadays. No, seriously. In fact, at the end of the trip the Captain of the aircraft was even standing there, along with the cabin crew, saying goodbye to us all...and with a full load on a 747 that's a lot of people! I really do believe that this downturn is just a momentary 'blip'...so hang on in there guys, the good times will come again.
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I thought there was a stoppage on training at BA etc so can anyone tell me why we are still sending cadet pilots out to USA for three months flight training (just started) Club class no less all expenses paid??????? believe 15 newis went today!!
Pilots' Pal
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Garcia (I'm touching forelocks and realising my place in the system) - you are obviously one of the few remaining dinosaurs in the industry. No doubt you insist on being addressed as "Sir" and call yourself "Captain" outside work. This assumes you have reached those dizzy levels!
NASA taught a monkey to fly a rocket - they could not teach a monkey to fix one!
NASA taught a monkey to fly a rocket - they could not teach a monkey to fix one!
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Its simple 90% of the time our jobs as pilots are fairly easy once we have got the hang of the aircraft we are flying but get it right on a KRK approach into CFU at night in poor vis and we earn our saleries for the next 10 years I can think of few jobs that occasionally throw up the same challenge the penalties of getting it wrong to dire to contemplate
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Dumiel it takes two years to get a cadet pilot through Basic Training and given the current retirement rate we need them to start now.
Club Class and all expenses paid...Bullshi* they deserve a decent seat because they are going to have to work solidly for the next 2 years just to get through training. After this they have to PAY BACK about £15,000 which means they take home far less than our cabin crew.
The only surprise is why anyone would do it! If they joined as cabin crew the training would last 5 weeks there is less stress no Sim checks no Route checks and it would be 10 years or more before they were overtaken financially by a cadet pilot.
Club Class and all expenses paid...Bullshi* they deserve a decent seat because they are going to have to work solidly for the next 2 years just to get through training. After this they have to PAY BACK about £15,000 which means they take home far less than our cabin crew.
The only surprise is why anyone would do it! If they joined as cabin crew the training would last 5 weeks there is less stress no Sim checks no Route checks and it would be 10 years or more before they were overtaken financially by a cadet pilot.
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Dummy,
BA cadets share a poky room in the desert with the odd black widow and some cockroaches. "All expenses paid" means they are given $12 a day to live on. This has to pay for food, and petrol to drive to the food shops, because there sure as hell ain't food shops in the desert. They are sent to the States because it is cheaper to train them there than it is in the UK. They will work 6 days a week, starting at 5am in the summer (it gets too hot for the aircraft to take off in the afternoon) and in the winter, sunrise until sunset. They do not get holidays, not even Boxing day, off. BA currently needs to lose about 300 pilots, and has a retirement rate of about 200 pilots each year. So in 2 years time there will be a shortfall. As Bigpants pointed out, it takes nearly 2 years to train a new pilot and BA needs to be prepared for when the upturn happens. And it will happen.
BA cadets share a poky room in the desert with the odd black widow and some cockroaches. "All expenses paid" means they are given $12 a day to live on. This has to pay for food, and petrol to drive to the food shops, because there sure as hell ain't food shops in the desert. They are sent to the States because it is cheaper to train them there than it is in the UK. They will work 6 days a week, starting at 5am in the summer (it gets too hot for the aircraft to take off in the afternoon) and in the winter, sunrise until sunset. They do not get holidays, not even Boxing day, off. BA currently needs to lose about 300 pilots, and has a retirement rate of about 200 pilots each year. So in 2 years time there will be a shortfall. As Bigpants pointed out, it takes nearly 2 years to train a new pilot and BA needs to be prepared for when the upturn happens. And it will happen.
Pandora & Bigpants,
You almost gave the impression that BA cadets were having it tough. Flying club class and then being fed and watered for free whilst BA sort out all your flying and ground school. Not to mention a shiney jet job at the end of all their pain and suffering! I almost felt sorry for the poor blighters!
You almost gave the impression that BA cadets were having it tough. Flying club class and then being fed and watered for free whilst BA sort out all your flying and ground school. Not to mention a shiney jet job at the end of all their pain and suffering! I almost felt sorry for the poor blighters!
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Ok here's one for all the simple people. Firstly BA are continuing to train all the cadets who are on courses simply because they are contractually obliged to the flying schools to do so. The cash has already been paid, they're not getting it back, so they might as well get the training from it. Secondly, the reason they send people to the states is because its dirt cheap, not because they want to send people off on a jolly holiday. Thirdly, if they did go in club, so what? A duty travel ticket in club costs the same as one in economy, and they'll only have gone in club because it was empty. If it was full they'd have made that trip in any seat that was going, including cabin crew rest seats, flight deck jumpseats or the fold down crew seats by the bogs.
BTW what exactly is a "stoppage on training"?
BTW what exactly is a "stoppage on training"?
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BA cadets share a poky room in the desert with the odd black widow and some cockroaches
As Hand Solo said, the training has already been paid for. I expect these cadets had already started at OATS before Sept 11th and this intensive flying period had been planned and paid for by then. No reason not to send them.
