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Turkish MD-83 Crash

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Turkish MD-83 Crash

Old 3rd Dec 2007, 13:33
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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First of all, this aircraft had EFIS/ND and EGPWS. Second of all, how about we start this "saving life" -campaign by changing these pilots way to think and their attitude...There is too many bad examples about bad attitudes and habits in Turkish aircrafts cockpit.
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 15:05
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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I agree totally Fin Pilot.
I seen the things going on with the old Istanbul Airlines that folded in the summer of 2000.
The owners of these companies are getting rich, yet they claim poverty and don't pay the crews, even the cabin ones.
We used our pilots and Istanbul Airlines cabin attendants.
When AAI refused to operate for IST airlines threats were made against the AAI ops manager and we stopped flying.
The courts ruled that the owner had to pay, He has yet to this day refused to do this claiming poverty.
Yet he owns several 5 star hotels in Antalya.
These Turkish pilots are trying to feed there families and this is when the shxt hits the fan.
Corners are cut, regulations are not followed, aircraft are operated against the MEL and problems happen.
My own opinion is that its time for the Turkish pilots put there foot down, no pay, no fly.
If the airplane is not operated according to the regs and mel, it sits on the ground.
When you have a set of standards, every time you let the company exceed these standards, you set a new standard.
Before long you have no standards at all, anything goes, move the airplane no matter what!
The only time I have seen this pay issue is with middle eastern countries, anything goes there!

Last edited by Earl; 4th Dec 2007 at 03:39.
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 15:15
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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It is very difficult to change their bad happits. As long as the turkish aviation industry is controlled by ex unprofeesional military guys nothing will change.
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 15:19
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I HAD ONCE A CONVERSATION WITH ONE OF THEES GUYS AND AND HE TOLD ME THAT HIS CAPTAIN DESCENT BELOW THE MDA and landed. He was very proud that they didnt divert and saved so much money.

This is exact the mentality. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 15:42
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Excuse me, what is ACMI ?
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 15:48
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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ACMI= Wetlease
Aircraft
Crew
Maintenance
Insurance

something like that...
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 15:49
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Aircraft, Crew, maintenance and insurance.
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 15:52
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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@shiny and earl

thx
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 20:23
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Earl,

...Back in 2003 they touched down in Medina KSA with the gear up...

The guy who did this is the DO of world focus airlines!
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 20:40
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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really great airline,isn'it?
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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 21:14
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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You mean there's no difference between "getting away with it this time" and a "well flown instrument approach"?

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Old 3rd Dec 2007, 23:06
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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hey guys, I'm just making a point...do "too many shortcuts to save money" sound at all familiar
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 01:41
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hans,earl,fin pilot you guys are kidding me or what...?? I flew a while in turkey and I'm the first to admit that some of the airlines over there need to get their act straight. Having said that, please do a research of how many airliners in the western world crashed because of stupidity and commercial pressure before you go at it to airlines in your so called third world airlines. You guys know as well as I do that corners are being cut in every airline. And if you want to do it 100% legal no airliner will t/o and you know that it is true. I'm not new in this game and from reading your posts so are you guys, so please stop talking like a rookie who gets a hard on from watching a aeroplane. You guys claim to have years of experience act like it and a little more nuance is at it's place.

rant over..

Last edited by SUNTURK 69; 4th Dec 2007 at 01:58.
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 02:11
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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SUNTURK 69: I look at & compare the statistics.
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 07:13
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SUNTURK 69:
I have personally seen, with my own eyes, some incredible stunts and behaviours by these Turkish pilots, not just by one company but few...Not to mention all the accident reports you can read!!! Referring these FACTS I am saying that there is something wrong with these pilots attitudes

By the way, Im still getting a hard on watching aeroplanes, sometimes even with out the "little blue pill"
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 07:33
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fully with you FINpilot
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 08:09
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If there is any doubt that there is a fundamental deficiency in that area, a quick look at this link maybe in order.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...highlight=aaib

I seem to recall several years ago, Korea (KAL) had some issues, that required some drastic action.
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 08:09
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I agree finpilot!
Unless you have been there its difficult to imagine some of the things these Turkish pilots try to do.
They really need some standards.
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 08:29
  #139 (permalink)  
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Now the consensus seems to be that the root cause of this accident is that all pilots in this region are cowboys and their bosses all swindlers, I am hoping that there are some still reading this thread who are less interested in these fascinating political comments and more interested in explaining the progress of the accident and the phenomena we can see in the photos.

flash, 214, PJ and Dozy, many thanks for the encomiums, folks. I hope you're all still reading, as also bumpyride, barit and Dinger.

DingerX suggests that there are broken trees and some sliding. After looking at the heli photos from the newspaper, I still don't agree. I say hardly any. Barit1 compares with a 1977 crash in Paris in which the tail hit first - but also says "skidding". That is the odd thing to me. There is apparently a strike mark on top of the hill. Then there is the tail more or less sitting in (intact) trees and the wingbox/fuselage assembly sitting further downhill, also in more or less intact trees. Where's the rest?

If he set down hard (high rate of descent) at the place at which there is the strike mark, then the tail can have broken, whether or not he is hitting flat or tail first. There is a YouTube video of a DC-9 setting down hard on a test flight, in which the tail breaks downwards (I tend to believe this is not faked, but don't know the details of the test). But then the wing box/fuselage piece must have bounced and come down with very little forward momentum at the place at which we see it. A counter indication is: where is the nose? Much further along?

I still think this points to the velocity vector being aimed significantly downwards at the point of impact and that the most likely way to account for that is previous loss of control.

I also wonder whether we will ever see recorder data.

PBL
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Old 4th Dec 2007, 09:06
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PBL:
There is a YouTube video of a DC-9 setting down hard on a test flight, in which the tail breaks downwards (I tend to believe this is not faked, but don't know the details of the test).
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/Photoga...t/AAR82-02.pdf

It was the first MD-80 off the production line on a test flight, and it was real. Sink rate was well over 1,000fpm on touchdown.
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