mytravel pilot loses appeal
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So now we've come to the end, which arse dobbed him in? Yup! Absolutely the right thing to do, but my advice would be to you, never, EVER make a mistake. Never, EVER trust anyone and check your brake pipes every night. Because these things come back to bite you. The time to have spoken up was before the incident. Because if this really was a "Safety related" issue, that would have been the correct time, wouldn't it? But you did what you had to, didn't you. It good to be right, isn't it?
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"We pilots, ALTHOUGH ON HERE WE NOW SEEM TO REPRESENT A MINORITY, still have to make a living and if that means sticking to the rules then so be it."
Flyinthesky is right on the button.
Even though many PROFESSIONAL WORKING pilots have said time and time again that this is the law and you comply with it like it or not, and that this incident was but one of many in this person's career and his demise was inevitable, there are still many posters, most of whose aviation experience seems only to reside in an extensive library of Biggles's books, prattle on about the freedom of the skies, the privileges of command etc.
A lot more than "enough already."
As an aside, I've nothing against Biggles, but he has a lot to answer for regarding my choice of career.
I think I will go to bed now and hopefully wake up in a world where Paul, Pablo, or whatever his name is, is heard of no more.
Flyinthesky is right on the button.
Even though many PROFESSIONAL WORKING pilots have said time and time again that this is the law and you comply with it like it or not, and that this incident was but one of many in this person's career and his demise was inevitable, there are still many posters, most of whose aviation experience seems only to reside in an extensive library of Biggles's books, prattle on about the freedom of the skies, the privileges of command etc.
A lot more than "enough already."
As an aside, I've nothing against Biggles, but he has a lot to answer for regarding my choice of career.
I think I will go to bed now and hopefully wake up in a world where Paul, Pablo, or whatever his name is, is heard of no more.
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".......wake up in a world where Paul, Pablo, or whatever his name is, is heard of no more."
The guy also served and fought for his country. Have you ever done anything like that? No I bet you haven't. Let me try and make it a bit easier to get your head around. Have you ever put something back into your country or is it, take, take,take......? The latter I think.
The guy also served and fought for his country. Have you ever done anything like that? No I bet you haven't. Let me try and make it a bit easier to get your head around. Have you ever put something back into your country or is it, take, take,take......? The latter I think.
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The sad fact remains, joehunt, that Pablo was just not suited to be a civvy Commander.
He should have stayed in the military, where he was more at home.
Many military guys just are not especially able to make the transistion, and Pablo was one of them...he was not especially bright it would appear.
Twist the tail of the tiger too often, prepare to be bitten.
He should have stayed in the military, where he was more at home.
Many military guys just are not especially able to make the transistion, and Pablo was one of them...he was not especially bright it would appear.
Twist the tail of the tiger too often, prepare to be bitten.
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Joe Hunt,
I don't believe anyone was casting aspersions on Pablos military career, although we have a few guys in MYT who were in the RAF at the same time and their comments are quite illuminating.
We are talking about a situation that occurred on a commercial aircraft governed by commercial laws. He broke the rules repeatedly, he got fired. End of....
Mods; is it not about time this thread got locked. I think the few pilots on here who can be bothered to reply are rapidly losing interest. In fact, can we have a forum where you actually have to prove your quals to gain entry. Now that would be useful from a professional perspective.
I don't believe anyone was casting aspersions on Pablos military career, although we have a few guys in MYT who were in the RAF at the same time and their comments are quite illuminating.
We are talking about a situation that occurred on a commercial aircraft governed by commercial laws. He broke the rules repeatedly, he got fired. End of....
Mods; is it not about time this thread got locked. I think the few pilots on here who can be bothered to reply are rapidly losing interest. In fact, can we have a forum where you actually have to prove your quals to gain entry. Now that would be useful from a professional perspective.
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perkin - it is most disappointing to read such ill-considered and foolish comments about the contributions of brave men, whose sacrifices have won you the right to make a public exhibition of yourself with only your own embarrassment to be concerned about. It is completely irrelevant that in your eyes the Iraq war:
We could argue all day about the rights and wrongs of individual conflicts - the fact you did not approve of this war does not lessen the contribution made by Pablo and numberous others in the service of his country.
The key thing is that the individual concerned, like countless brave men and women before him, was willing to lay his life on the line for his nation - I for one am profoundly grateful to such people in all our wars and not just the ones I liked. In this country, our servicemen and women do not have the luxury of choosing the wars they fight and die in - that is the responsibility of the government of the day.
Regarding your crass comments about Pablo receiving
your woeful ignorance is again on display for us all to marvel at. You may be interested to know that the RAF actually spent millions in cash and many years of effort on his training, and not one penny of it was spent to set him up for a career in commerical aviation. It was spent so that when his country required him to fight, and possibly die, on its behalf he would have necessary skills to do so. The fact that some years later he took up a career in commercial flying is neither here nor there.
Will you turn round to the mother who has seen her son's legs blown off by the IRA in Ireland, or the wife who lost her husband at the hands of the Taleban in Afghanistan, and tell them their loved ones' contributions did not count because they were in the 'wrong' wars? I trust not.
You may have no sympathy for Pablo - I personally do. My own experience of life is that 'what goes around comes around'. You may one day require a bit of a break - with the same mercy you treated others you yourself will be be treated. Could be interesting!
had very little real bearing on the occupants of this country, with the exception of oil prices
The key thing is that the individual concerned, like countless brave men and women before him, was willing to lay his life on the line for his nation - I for one am profoundly grateful to such people in all our wars and not just the ones I liked. In this country, our servicemen and women do not have the luxury of choosing the wars they fight and die in - that is the responsibility of the government of the day.
Regarding your crass comments about Pablo receiving
many tens of thousands of pounds worth of training at the taxpayers expense which potentially set him up for a fine career in commercial aviation after he left the RAF
Will you turn round to the mother who has seen her son's legs blown off by the IRA in Ireland, or the wife who lost her husband at the hands of the Taleban in Afghanistan, and tell them their loved ones' contributions did not count because they were in the 'wrong' wars? I trust not.
You may have no sympathy for Pablo - I personally do. My own experience of life is that 'what goes around comes around'. You may one day require a bit of a break - with the same mercy you treated others you yourself will be be treated. Could be interesting!
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I feel sorry for you people working today. I had retired long before the 9/11 business and before PC and anti-terrorist measures took over completely. It would drive be absolutely mad if I were working in today's climate
During my career, several times I had messages from the back that we had a nervous passenger who would like to see us. Typical was the evening when one man was terrified of the flashes from distant thunderstorms. I invited him to the flight deck, showed him the radar and he appreciated how we pilots were really enjoying the free light show. His fears were certainly calmed and he thanked us profusely.
I have a daughter who when young was terrified of thunderstorms. I started showing her growing cu-nims and saying how they might develop into thunderstorms. She began to understand and no longer has any fears.
The pre-PC era is amusing to look back on. I was flying with a very senior pilot who was in the right hand seat. A young boy visited the flight deck and the senior pilot was all too happy to have him sit on his lap (!) and let him "pretend" to hold the control column! It seemed harmless at the time but what on earth would people make of all that nowadays?
Jack Harrison
During my career, several times I had messages from the back that we had a nervous passenger who would like to see us. Typical was the evening when one man was terrified of the flashes from distant thunderstorms. I invited him to the flight deck, showed him the radar and he appreciated how we pilots were really enjoying the free light show. His fears were certainly calmed and he thanked us profusely.
I have a daughter who when young was terrified of thunderstorms. I started showing her growing cu-nims and saying how they might develop into thunderstorms. She began to understand and no longer has any fears.
The pre-PC era is amusing to look back on. I was flying with a very senior pilot who was in the right hand seat. A young boy visited the flight deck and the senior pilot was all too happy to have him sit on his lap (!) and let him "pretend" to hold the control column! It seemed harmless at the time but what on earth would people make of all that nowadays?
Jack Harrison
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Yes, but rules are rules!!!!!!! and he broke them, and paid the penalty for it. No defence. He signed a contract with the company accepting these rules. I think personally that this has been done to death and is now getting quite boring.
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JEM60
Rules are rules!!!!!, you are correct. Better watch that ticker of yours as you aren't getting any younger now, are you. So calm down.
Can you honestly say you have never, ever broken a rule?
Maybe you may have broken a rule and if one of you collegues had "dobbed you in" you may have lost your job and your lively hood.
The people that worry me the most, are the ones that never ever make mistakes, because when they do eventually screw up, they screw up big time.
Rules are rules!!!!!, you are correct. Better watch that ticker of yours as you aren't getting any younger now, are you. So calm down.
Can you honestly say you have never, ever broken a rule?
Maybe you may have broken a rule and if one of you collegues had "dobbed you in" you may have lost your job and your lively hood.
The people that worry me the most, are the ones that never ever make mistakes, because when they do eventually screw up, they screw up big time.
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Norman SF
Great post.
joehunt
There's no point trying to reason with the "rules are rules" guys who think anyone who breaks a rule or a law deserves to lose their job and their livelihood.
And before you waste any more time on JEM60 here's another gem from him so you can decide if it's worth it
Great post.
joehunt
There's no point trying to reason with the "rules are rules" guys who think anyone who breaks a rule or a law deserves to lose their job and their livelihood.
And before you waste any more time on JEM60 here's another gem from him so you can decide if it's worth it
I used to be a PPL before I bought a flight sim. Now, with about £700 of add ons it has EVERYTHING I need to imagine myself with four bars on my shoulder. Being an early riser, I fly to the Balearics before my wife is even awake.
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Bronx
As for JEM60, yes I am a sucker! Ha, why didn't someone warn me before?! Teach me to read the previous posts before I submit but also find it depressing to read a lot of the garbage.
Totally agree though, great post by NSF and eloquently put across.
Does anyone know if Pablo has another flying job BTW? I am aware he probably doesn't need or want it, after confronting the BS he's had to endure of late.
I would give aviation up myself if I could afford to.
As for JEM60, yes I am a sucker! Ha, why didn't someone warn me before?! Teach me to read the previous posts before I submit but also find it depressing to read a lot of the garbage.
Totally agree though, great post by NSF and eloquently put across.
Does anyone know if Pablo has another flying job BTW? I am aware he probably doesn't need or want it, after confronting the BS he's had to endure of late.
I would give aviation up myself if I could afford to.
Last edited by joehunt; 10th Feb 2008 at 16:11.
The people that worry me the most, are the ones that never ever make mistakes, because when they do eventually screw up, they screw up big time.
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Pablo was the front page story in European Business Air News (www.ebanmagazine.com) this month. He is looking to move into the corporate world apparently.
It was a wierd story for the frontpage of a magazine all about what the business aviation community's getting up to. Maybe he knows the editor ;-)
I'd give him a job though. He might have broken the rules, but with a moustache like that, he should be allowed to break them...
It was a wierd story for the frontpage of a magazine all about what the business aviation community's getting up to. Maybe he knows the editor ;-)
I'd give him a job though. He might have broken the rules, but with a moustache like that, he should be allowed to break them...
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Well, Bronx. What a smallminded post from you. Just because I am not a 'Sky God' doesn't actually disqualify me from having a brain, or an opinion. As it happened, I chose not to be an airline pilot, and went on to other things equally stimulating, and rather more exciting. Y our post was childish in th xtreme. Suggest you grow up a bit!!!
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kick the tires
Getting bored with it are we, old chap.
Let me try to make it a little more interesting.
Anyone who has flown professionally for 10 years or more in any field of aviation, and not broken any rule or law?
Can anyone answer yes to the above question? Honest, hand on heart answers please.
I answer no and I run the flight department for a very large muti national Corporation.
Getting bored with it are we, old chap.
Let me try to make it a little more interesting.
Anyone who has flown professionally for 10 years or more in any field of aviation, and not broken any rule or law?
Can anyone answer yes to the above question? Honest, hand on heart answers please.
I answer no and I run the flight department for a very large muti national Corporation.
Last edited by joehunt; 11th Feb 2008 at 01:38.