mytravel pilot loses appeal
As in this case when a sportsman belonging to a team of sportsmen who collectively have a criminal conviction are allowed onto the flightdeck.
Some real tosh being spouted on here IMO.......
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Not wishing to antagonise John B ,IMHO the posts 92 and 97 are both mature ,sensible and spoken from the viewpoint of the Public although I imagine they have both been writen by professional aviators who,like myself have learnt to adapt to the locked door concept.
Regretable in the extreme that no longer can our families or any prospective aviators join us on the flightdeck, but having been involved with heavy metal for 25+ years,we need to recognise that the halcyon days of flightdeck visits are never going to return.
Regretable in the extreme that no longer can our families or any prospective aviators join us on the flightdeck, but having been involved with heavy metal for 25+ years,we need to recognise that the halcyon days of flightdeck visits are never going to return.
FlyingOfficerKite
Am I the only one that finds your comment "..there are those who are supporting the action against this Captain are supporting the terrorists" grossly offensive?
The UK Flight Deck access rules are nuts..but if I deviate from Company SOPs I know I will almost certainly take the bullet unless I can prove my actions improved safety..
Frankly having done two tours Fast Jet, two tours jet QFI'ing and having toasted three absent friends, killed in fast jet accidents, at a reunion the other night, I don't like the implications that now, with 10000 plus hours of civilian Long Haul, I've turned into a lily livered surrender monkey or some sort of Fifth columnist....
Get some time in, get a Command, and then try the: "I'm entitled to deviate from SOPs because a nervous footballers on board" stunt..and see where it gets you.
Rant off, rant off, go.
The UK Flight Deck access rules are nuts..but if I deviate from Company SOPs I know I will almost certainly take the bullet unless I can prove my actions improved safety..
Frankly having done two tours Fast Jet, two tours jet QFI'ing and having toasted three absent friends, killed in fast jet accidents, at a reunion the other night, I don't like the implications that now, with 10000 plus hours of civilian Long Haul, I've turned into a lily livered surrender monkey or some sort of Fifth columnist....
Get some time in, get a Command, and then try the: "I'm entitled to deviate from SOPs because a nervous footballers on board" stunt..and see where it gets you.
Rant off, rant off, go.
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Not condoning his actions at all.
However our manuals say no flight deck visits in air or on the ground. I have never known one captain to refuse this action from an excited son as they disembark. Has nobody ever left a remote parked aircraft unsecured etc etc?? Indeed i suspect the same applies to 90+% of professional pilots.
Does this mean we should all be disciplined? Following the logic yes as we have deviated from the law.
Some of these things are not black and white there is still some common sense in the world.
However for what it is worth i think there was no grey area with this decision; the man was very foolish and deserved what he got. He excercised poor judgment. This job is all about non-exposure to risk.
However our manuals say no flight deck visits in air or on the ground. I have never known one captain to refuse this action from an excited son as they disembark. Has nobody ever left a remote parked aircraft unsecured etc etc?? Indeed i suspect the same applies to 90+% of professional pilots.
Does this mean we should all be disciplined? Following the logic yes as we have deviated from the law.
Some of these things are not black and white there is still some common sense in the world.
However for what it is worth i think there was no grey area with this decision; the man was very foolish and deserved what he got. He excercised poor judgment. This job is all about non-exposure to risk.
FlyingOfficerKite
No, I'm not all over the place on this one - I have put my argument and credentials on the table - can I ask exactly what your qualifications are, because I see b*** all on your public profile? MFS flight Sim or perhaps not even that? Please tell us, because the very none CRM expression "no stick, no vote" springs to mind.
Lets be clear about this. In my humble opinion the locked flight deck door policy as decreed by the UK CAA is illogical - in particular exclusion of people known to the crew or even family of the pilots when some who have no criminal record in the UK, clear or otherwise, are alllowed unrestricted access is, IMHO "nuts"...hence my comment.
As to Pablo's punishment - I have no opinion on the punishment itself. I don't know the guy, I've never met him, I don't know his track record in the Airline. However I do know, as he should have done, that ignoring Company SOPs regarding security in this day and age is almost certainly, right or wrong, going to get you the sack...
Moving on to your comments, because as I guess you now realise you have right royally
me off... I feel you are being grossly offensive to the hundreds of guys and girls who have both served their country ( whichever one it is) and who now work to their Airline's SOPs. There's been no apology from you so far so come on, you are the one who stated that anyone who agrees with Pablo's punishment is supporting the terrorists. so what's your "reasoned argument"..?
Oh, and "Creme de la Creme"...me?...I don't think so, some of the others here who know me know my ego isn't that big but, hey, thanks for the compliment.
Lets be clear about this. In my humble opinion the locked flight deck door policy as decreed by the UK CAA is illogical - in particular exclusion of people known to the crew or even family of the pilots when some who have no criminal record in the UK, clear or otherwise, are alllowed unrestricted access is, IMHO "nuts"...hence my comment.
As to Pablo's punishment - I have no opinion on the punishment itself. I don't know the guy, I've never met him, I don't know his track record in the Airline. However I do know, as he should have done, that ignoring Company SOPs regarding security in this day and age is almost certainly, right or wrong, going to get you the sack...
Moving on to your comments, because as I guess you now realise you have right royally
me off... I feel you are being grossly offensive to the hundreds of guys and girls who have both served their country ( whichever one it is) and who now work to their Airline's SOPs. There's been no apology from you so far so come on, you are the one who stated that anyone who agrees with Pablo's punishment is supporting the terrorists. so what's your "reasoned argument"..?Oh, and "Creme de la Creme"...me?...I don't think so, some of the others here who know me know my ego isn't that big but, hey, thanks for the compliment.
Last edited by wiggy; 27th Nov 2007 at 22:31.
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Well I work for one of the airlines that had four pilots murdered in their cockpits on 9/11, not to mention everyone else on board eventually. I can recall no discussion about ever banning passengers from the cockpit while parked at the gate. I see no possible purpose in doing that, other than to make some bureaucrat get a boner for thinking it up. 
No shortage of pilots at my airline with sidearms in the cockpit, so that makes the blood pressure a little lower too, but stopping visitors at the gate makes no sense to me.
OH
No shortage of pilots at my airline with sidearms in the cockpit, so that makes the blood pressure a little lower too, but stopping visitors at the gate makes no sense to me.
OH
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can I ask exactly what your qualifications are, because I see b*** all on your public profile? MFS flight Sim or perhaps not even that?
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Myt Management
If the illustrious Capt 'fella' Henry was such asset to aviation, why is he not in a suitable position in another airline?
UKL was one of the worst run companies I worked for
UKL was one of the worst run companies I worked for
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Do you really believe this was bad publicity for MyTravel?
Beggars belief !
Be lucky
David
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As others have pointed out before, I think there is more to this dismissal than the single incident involving Robbie Savage. Please do not omit the fact that it appears that this incident was the straw that broke the camels back...
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Please do not omit the fact that it appears that this incident was the straw that broke the camels back...
The locking of the flight deck door was on the agenda long long before 911, this was as the result of previous attacks on flight crew by idiots and those with mental problems. It's implementation was accelerated by that sad event not, as some may think, as a result of it
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Wiggy
That is a good thing - UA encourages it too
. Good harmless PR. It is interesting that most passengers seem to have forgotten that pilots over here can be federally licensed to carry a weapon on the flight deck now. I wasn't thrilled about it when it first started but, after watching it for a few years, I think it is a good program which is well monitored and managed.
OH
That is a good thing - UA encourages it too
. Good harmless PR. It is interesting that most passengers seem to have forgotten that pilots over here can be federally licensed to carry a weapon on the flight deck now. I wasn't thrilled about it when it first started but, after watching it for a few years, I think it is a good program which is well monitored and managed.OH