Brand new Etihad A340-600 damaged in Toulouse; several wounded
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Wingview, do you care to read the posts in this thread??
First of all according to the telex from Airbus the incident happened while leaving the engine run up area.
Secondly, earlier somebody made a description why it sometimes necessary to park the aircraft nose in.
Not sure if you are familiar with the Schiphol layout but have a look at the engine test bay at the beginning of runway 27, opposite McDonalds.
This engine test bay is constructed in such a way that regularly during engine test you are facing a wall. Especially when facing South - East. If the brakes would fail and the chocks would not stop the aircraft than you will end up in the same position as the Etihad aircraft.
After having done a fair amount of engine runs in this position myself, and seen other operators do it, i would advise you to be very carefull with appointing blame.
de groeten. CEJM
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&t=h...6866&z=16&om=0
First of all according to the telex from Airbus the incident happened while leaving the engine run up area.
Secondly, earlier somebody made a description why it sometimes necessary to park the aircraft nose in.
Not sure if you are familiar with the Schiphol layout but have a look at the engine test bay at the beginning of runway 27, opposite McDonalds.
This engine test bay is constructed in such a way that regularly during engine test you are facing a wall. Especially when facing South - East. If the brakes would fail and the chocks would not stop the aircraft than you will end up in the same position as the Etihad aircraft.
After having done a fair amount of engine runs in this position myself, and seen other operators do it, i would advise you to be very carefull with appointing blame.
de groeten. CEJM
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&t=h...6866&z=16&om=0
Last edited by CEJM; 17th Nov 2007 at 22:13. Reason: insert link
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....... earlier somebody made a description why it is sometimes necessary to park the aircraft nose in.
Not like so .......
Last edited by forget; 17th Nov 2007 at 21:04.
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Quote:
....... earlier somebody made a description why it is sometimes necessary to park the aircraft nose in.
So why is it sometimes necessary? An aircraft in a walled off run-up pad should be backed in. Anything else is nonsense.
Wind direction.
....... earlier somebody made a description why it is sometimes necessary to park the aircraft nose in.
So why is it sometimes necessary? An aircraft in a walled off run-up pad should be backed in. Anything else is nonsense.
Wind direction.
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Maybe Airbus should lay down an EMAS surface at either end of its engine testing facilities leaving enough room to enter and exit... just in case 
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Fox3snapshot: Wouldn't the blast deflectors, ummmm....stop the wind
In a word, no. There is a big gap, although obviously not big enough, to get the aircraft in and out.
Seriously though, on older aircraft during EGRs it’s not unknown to have to reposition the aircraft into wind. During new aircraft acceptance, lease transfer etc, any variance on the engine parameters could carry a financial penalty.
In a word, no. There is a big gap, although obviously not big enough, to get the aircraft in and out.
Seriously though, on older aircraft during EGRs it’s not unknown to have to reposition the aircraft into wind. During new aircraft acceptance, lease transfer etc, any variance on the engine parameters could carry a financial penalty.
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Wind direction? Just where, precisely, is the anemometer in this walled-off pad?
Engine runs aren’t (weren’t) my thing but I’ve spent enough time on airfields to have an opinion on this whole sorry cock up.
If someone suggested to me that I could carry on working with my ‘wires’ while they moved the aircraft into a walled of run-up pad for high power engine runs, I’d consider it.
When they told me that, due to a shortage of tugs/tow-bars they were taxiing nose in, I’d reconsider it.
When I saw that the aircraft was then pointing at a sloping concrete wall - with a six feet high three inch thick steel guillotine on the top, I’d get out and watch from a safe distance.
What the hell happened to common sense?
Whoever sanctioned/supervised/approved this operation needs introducing to the rag man’s trumpet. Pathetic - Incompetent - Negligent.
PS.
So this one's saved a few bob then! 
Engine runs aren’t (weren’t) my thing but I’ve spent enough time on airfields to have an opinion on this whole sorry cock up.
If someone suggested to me that I could carry on working with my ‘wires’ while they moved the aircraft into a walled of run-up pad for high power engine runs, I’d consider it.
When they told me that, due to a shortage of tugs/tow-bars they were taxiing nose in, I’d reconsider it.
When I saw that the aircraft was then pointing at a sloping concrete wall - with a six feet high three inch thick steel guillotine on the top, I’d get out and watch from a safe distance.
What the hell happened to common sense?
Whoever sanctioned/supervised/approved this operation needs introducing to the rag man’s trumpet. Pathetic - Incompetent - Negligent.
PS.
During new aircraft acceptance, lease transfer etc, any variance on the engine parameters could carry a financial penalty.
Last edited by forget; 17th Nov 2007 at 22:05.
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"Not sure if you are familiar with the Schiphol layout but have a look at the engine test bay at the beginning of runway 27, opposite McDonalds?"
Would that be a drive thru or Fly thru
Would that be a drive thru or Fly thru
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I've read the entire subject..... and so far I'm no nearer to what really happened.
Does anybody have any factual information?
Like why an aircraft managed to climb up and over blast defectors that should have been behind the aircraft?
Does anybody have any factual information?
Like why an aircraft managed to climb up and over blast defectors that should have been behind the aircraft?
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Forget,
Have a look google earth at the engine run bay at Schiphol at beginning of runway 27. You will see that while facing South-East and with the exhaust pointing to the blast deflector the nose points to the wall on the other side.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&t=h...6866&z=16&om=0
Have a look google earth at the engine run bay at Schiphol at beginning of runway 27. You will see that while facing South-East and with the exhaust pointing to the blast deflector the nose points to the wall on the other side.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&t=h...6866&z=16&om=0
Last edited by CEJM; 17th Nov 2007 at 22:12. Reason: Insert link
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ChristiaanJ,
Its going to be very difficult when the engine test bay is U shaped with the lower right hand corner of the U not being walled. To have the tail of the aircraft facing the blast deflectors you have to point the nose to the opposite wall, either 90 degrees or a smaller angle but it will face a wall. Have a look on Google Earth Toulouse airport and follow the Airbus facility. You will find the engine test bay and probably will understand why it was facing a wall.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&t=h...1457&z=16&om=0
Its going to be very difficult when the engine test bay is U shaped with the lower right hand corner of the U not being walled. To have the tail of the aircraft facing the blast deflectors you have to point the nose to the opposite wall, either 90 degrees or a smaller angle but it will face a wall. Have a look on Google Earth Toulouse airport and follow the Airbus facility. You will find the engine test bay and probably will understand why it was facing a wall.
http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&t=h...1457&z=16&om=0
Last edited by CEJM; 17th Nov 2007 at 22:06.
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I believe that the wind consideration in engine runups have to do with the engine stability, most notably fan issues at high power.
When you are standing still at high power the inlet is sucking air and any wind across the inlet is akin to angle of attack changes on the inlet itself. Some engines might not like this and even backfire/surge/stall (its hard to sell this product afterwards to a customer). While in other cases minute angle of attack changes could oucurr to the fan blades themselves setting up a flutter zone which might rapidly wear out the whole fan blade set.
Steady state winds are easily accomodated but gusting winds are not so easily defined in directionality. Its not a question of being boxed in and not getting enough air, it's the need to have smooth airflow at high power if you are anywhere near the fan blade flutter speeds.
When you are standing still at high power the inlet is sucking air and any wind across the inlet is akin to angle of attack changes on the inlet itself. Some engines might not like this and even backfire/surge/stall (its hard to sell this product afterwards to a customer). While in other cases minute angle of attack changes could oucurr to the fan blades themselves setting up a flutter zone which might rapidly wear out the whole fan blade set.
Steady state winds are easily accomodated but gusting winds are not so easily defined in directionality. Its not a question of being boxed in and not getting enough air, it's the need to have smooth airflow at high power if you are anywhere near the fan blade flutter speeds.
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If we believe the Airbus Telex, than it doesn't matter if the aircraft was facing a wall while they performed the engie test. Because the accident happend while they were vacating the engine test bay.
We will have to wait for the report from the authorities.
Lamapaseo, you hit the nail on the head. Thats the reason why the aircraft needs to point into wind.
We will have to wait for the report from the authorities.
Lamapaseo, you hit the nail on the head. Thats the reason why the aircraft needs to point into wind.
