Brand new Etihad A340-600 damaged in Toulouse; several wounded
I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for recorders where one of the engines was left running until it ran out of fuel. Of course mabe even that rumor is false or dead waiting for new life.
Even if this is purely a test aircraft function not intended for flight Airbus has a responsibility to report any anomalies found that could releate to intended flight.. If that pedestal story continues to hold up even the dog in the cockpit wouldn't help
Even if this is purely a test aircraft function not intended for flight Airbus has a responsibility to report any anomalies found that could releate to intended flight.. If that pedestal story continues to hold up even the dog in the cockpit wouldn't help
Not to mention the fact that maintenance people who conduct engine runs need to be aware of the hazards involved as identified by this occurrence. As for the recorders, the CVR on most new aircraft runs for 2 hours, and I can't imagine it took that long to get the engines shut down. The DFDR should be good for 24 hours, so for sure there's no issue there.
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The Flight Data Recorder will track events long beyond 7 hours. The Cockpit Voice Recorder may well have been overwritten (2 hours) so what was said on the flight deck (very significant here) may be lost.
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After reading BEA and Airbus bulletins
No other alternative than to blame the crew (I should say the two guys) seated at the controls at the time:
These guys failed to retard the THR LEVERS for 11 seconds !?
They did rapidly notice they were moving
They did quickly push on the brake pedals
They did quickly turn the PARKING BRAKE OFF
But they failed to retard the THR LEVERS for 11 seconds …
As the wall was dangerously approaching, they kept substantial thrust (1.24 to 1.26 EPR) for 11 seconds !
How surprising is it ?
Still, it could be possible … as long as you don’t have a look at the pictures, and you don’t realize the magnitude of destruction, and you don’t note the absence of braking mark.
So possibly one of these official statements is false, if not all of them:
· Airplane was at 30 knots
· Power was at idle
· Airplane was braking
DFDR / CVR did deliver all the story already, but very surprisingly they waited (as officially told) 4 days before reading them, and even there they precise they waited in the afternoon to do that, at tea time.
But this information is not avail to anyone, it would be too simple to know what happened, it really has to stay in “good hands”.
... and be assure:
Usually it is, ……. as soon as doctored !
No other alternative than to blame the crew (I should say the two guys) seated at the controls at the time:
These guys failed to retard the THR LEVERS for 11 seconds !?
They did rapidly notice they were moving
They did quickly push on the brake pedals
They did quickly turn the PARKING BRAKE OFF
But they failed to retard the THR LEVERS for 11 seconds …
As the wall was dangerously approaching, they kept substantial thrust (1.24 to 1.26 EPR) for 11 seconds !
How surprising is it ?
Still, it could be possible … as long as you don’t have a look at the pictures, and you don’t realize the magnitude of destruction, and you don’t note the absence of braking mark.
So possibly one of these official statements is false, if not all of them:
· Airplane was at 30 knots
· Power was at idle
· Airplane was braking
DFDR / CVR did deliver all the story already, but very surprisingly they waited (as officially told) 4 days before reading them, and even there they precise they waited in the afternoon to do that, at tea time.
But this information is not avail to anyone, it would be too simple to know what happened, it really has to stay in “good hands”.
... and be assure:
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY AIRCRAFT SYSTEM OR ENGINE MALFUNCTION
A ce stade, aucun dysfonctionnement technique au niveau des systèmes de freinage et des moteurs n’a été mis en évidence
A ce stade, aucun dysfonctionnement technique au niveau des systèmes de freinage et des moteurs n’a été mis en évidence
Originally Posted by PJ2
CVR will tell us - if it's ever released
Last edited by CONF iture; 29th Nov 2007 at 02:03. Reason: Links
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Well, better doctored, than swapped. . . . like the one caught by aerial picture from a helicopter after Mont Odile, or Air Inter "air-show" (don't remember which but I think the
latter) which was a different colour to the one they produced at the Press Conference. Insp Clouseau would have appreciated that gaf.
latter) which was a different colour to the one they produced at the Press Conference. Insp Clouseau would have appreciated that gaf.
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very surprisingly they waited (as officially told) 4 days before reading them
Sat & Sun - weekend. It's an incident during a ground test, not an inflight incident with immediate implications for inservice flight safety.
Monday afternoon, they read the data.
Like I say, what's the rush? If they were to say "oh, we rushed to read the tapes ASAP and accidentally erased some data - which COULD happen - the finger pointing/conspiracy-theorists would have a field day. Rule #1 in accident investigation - take your time, don't destroy evidence.
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So Friday to recover the bits and pieces and check out the externals of the boxes once they get to the lab.
Bgrd's
N1 Vibes
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Originally Posted by Mad (Flt) Scientist
It's an incident
Rule #1 in accident investigation - take your time, don't destroy evidence
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...a 30 kt ram into a concrete wall with no fire is hardly going to render them unreadable!
At least that's the way it's supposed to work.
More of concern I'd think - to ADAT (GAMCO) anyway - is permitting French authorities to read out the recorders. Remember the Cameroun accident w/Kenyan 738 jurisdictional issues?
I've scrolled through most of the thread...lot's of stuff about why it happened, physics, chocks, etc etc.
But I didn't see any comment about why the fuselage seemed to more or less snap like a broken twig, slightly aft of the flight deck.
Can anyone enlighten a non-structural engineer, non-physicist, non-most things person?
I always thought that the fuselage structure is supposed to withstand quite severe unexpected and unusual forces. And this one didn't.
But I didn't see any comment about why the fuselage seemed to more or less snap like a broken twig, slightly aft of the flight deck.
Can anyone enlighten a non-structural engineer, non-physicist, non-most things person?
I always thought that the fuselage structure is supposed to withstand quite severe unexpected and unusual forces. And this one didn't.
I've scrolled through most of the thread...lot's of stuff about why it happened, physics, chocks, etc etc.
But I didn't see any comment about why the fuselage seemed to more or less snap like a broken twig, slightly aft of the flight deck.
Can anyone enlighten a non-structural engineer, non-physicist, non-most things person?
I always thought that the fuselage structure is supposed to withstand quite severe unexpected and unusual forces. And this one didn't.
But I didn't see any comment about why the fuselage seemed to more or less snap like a broken twig, slightly aft of the flight deck.
Can anyone enlighten a non-structural engineer, non-physicist, non-most things person?
I always thought that the fuselage structure is supposed to withstand quite severe unexpected and unusual forces. And this one didn't.
Thus a significant bending moment coupled with significant impact forces resolved through the 45 degree change in direction.
Not exactly considered in the normal operational design of an aircraft
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Why the fuselage broke down
The fuselage was going up the slope of the blast wall. At this moment
there was not a lot of deceleration as the plane was only pitched
around the CG.
A short moment after the Cockpit area went over the edge the main
gear started climbing the wall. At this moment the whole plane was
slowed down quite heavily because now there was real deceleration.
This created a forward-down momentum around the CG. This momentum
smashed the forward fuselage on the sharp edge of the blast wall cutting
it through up to the main deck. As the integrity of the lower part of the
fuselage was completely destroyed the down momentum bend down the
part of the plane forward of the edge.
there was not a lot of deceleration as the plane was only pitched
around the CG.
A short moment after the Cockpit area went over the edge the main
gear started climbing the wall. At this moment the whole plane was
slowed down quite heavily because now there was real deceleration.
This created a forward-down momentum around the CG. This momentum
smashed the forward fuselage on the sharp edge of the blast wall cutting
it through up to the main deck. As the integrity of the lower part of the
fuselage was completely destroyed the down momentum bend down the
part of the plane forward of the edge.