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Brand new Etihad A340-600 damaged in Toulouse; several wounded

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Brand new Etihad A340-600 damaged in Toulouse; several wounded

Old 16th Nov 2007, 13:02
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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aircraftrecords cites:
(at VYR)...The coneheads (avionics mechanics) were messing with CB's during run and pulled a breaker that put the aircraft into flight mode...

Presto! Engines to flight idle, no reverse thrust, no brakes & no steering... It jumped the chocks so fast the mechanics in the left and right seats didn't even know what happened (they didn't even know the coney's were messing around with the CB's)...
There have been other dire events associated with uncoordinated pulling of CBs - like disabling overspeed protection of engines

Best practice is to have a thorough briefing before any such action.
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 13:41
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Tom Sawyer: There was part of the acceptance that required to have all 4 at high power at the same time, but can't remember why.
Captain Sawyer: When you mention "high power" . . . you are talking about what percentage of thrust? Can you confirm that no chocks and no brakes will hold this empty airplane with max thrust simultaneously on all 4 engines...?
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 13:58
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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I'm amazed the man with the big brush and bucket of white paint has not been out and about yet
Be lucky
David
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 17:04
  #64 (permalink)  
F4F
 
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Actually the capacity of the brakes/tires assy being able to hold the aircraft in position at high thrust is proportional to the load of the aircraft, the capacity of the brakes, and the state of the surface (and some other minute parameters).
On a normal static TOGA thrust takeoff, on a non contaminated runway, most aircraft are heavy, thereby the friction is high enough for said plane not to move during the application of thrust.
Same aircraft loaded only with some fuel will happily move forward, even with the brakes set. I well remember our empty A300-600 moving forward (actually it set up a kind of hicupped motion) when we had to do a full thrust engines run-up a few years ago

And yet to find a
seriously over powered machine
in the civilian world...

Best wishes to the injured


live 2 fly 2 live
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 17:39
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Can someone enlighten us what kind of company "Abu Dhabi Aircraft Technologies" is.
As has been pointed out they were formally known as GAMCO - as to what kind of company they are, well GAMCO are well known for doing everything on the cheap - hence the state of Gulf Air's aircraft........................
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 18:23
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Saddlebrooks, I say again. NO Etihad employees were on board.
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 21:23
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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The 340-500/600 is probably the only aircraft that has the potential to drag an aircraft with brakes on!
Sorry if this was already said (didn't yet read the full topic) but a Concorde with full afterburner would "drag" on the brakes. It could not be held on the brakes at the start of take-off to check evrything was "as desired".
A few very nifty lights at about 60kts (IIRC) told you whether to carry on or reject.
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Old 16th Nov 2007, 21:26
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus Spokesman in French media this morning : first investigation made , cannot explain what happened, need more time. Never hapenned before , we deliver 500 a/c a year and do this 2 or 3 times a day, etc...
Need to do this in a walled box (instead as in empty space ) because of noise .
Confirmed a/c is a complete write off .
No news on the injured , mostly Etihad employees.

A quick Google search tells me that this airport has been in its current location since 1939. So why then is the "noise" of engine run-ups such an issue for the residents that it has to be performed in a concrete cell?
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 02:40
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Computers?

Maybe those naughty French Computers played some mischief here??
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 03:24
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Frenchie never heard of "Keep It Simple". The more complicated, the more can go wrong. Whats this stupid concept of non moving Throttles and Flight Controls?
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 03:45
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Fatfish,

You are right!

Better to do what Boeing do and have exactly the same computers but give the aircraft the world's biggest force feedback joystick and thrust levers to give the pilots the illusion that they actually have direct control. A more complicated switch attached to the same computers must be the way ahead. After all there has never been a mechanical or hf error on a Boeing.
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 05:46
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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HAD COMPLETED FINAL ENGINE RUN AND WAS EXITING THE ENGINE RUN ZONE AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT.



Sadly at very high thrust and not via the exit!!!
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 05:50
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Lightbulb

Aside from that terrible accident.

This has probably nothing to do with it, but why did the original design engineers for the A-320 want to install pushbuttons instead of "throttles"/thrust levers?
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 06:06
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Bigger PIC

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1293784/L/
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 06:59
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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To answer a few points raised from my original post, although it is probably irrelavant if it is a "taxying" incident.
1. There is no point standing on the pedals to assist the parking brake. The green system brakes do not operate if the parking brake is selected on. Checked this out on a live aircraft today and is correct. The MM also does not mention having to assist the parking brake during high power runs. So at the ground EPR limits they must consider the brakes capable of holding the aircraft, which must also be chocked.
2. High power is not the same a full power. Test 7 in the MM operates the engine in the 1.249 - 1.232 EPR which equates roughly to 80 - 83% n1 depending on temp. Software in the FADEC also limits thrust on the ground to 1.33EPR & 83% N1.
3. The engine running bay is tight, but lines are there and give clearance for the -600. Can't say I noticed that much as following a marshaller and at night. When we were running at high power we were chocked and the steering active.
4. The aircraft is overpowered On what basis? The A343 was supposedly under powered.
5. I'm not a Captain...... me sir, no sir, how very dare you
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 07:08
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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So GAMCO it is, thanks.
Hopefully AB didn't do the usual customer gimmick and let them taxi the bird back to the hangar ..... it would be some liability issue.
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 07:56
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Hopefully AB didn't do the usual customer gimmick and let them taxi the bird back to the hangar ..... it would be some liability issue.
Seeing that Etihad already have some 340's I don't think getting to taxi it back to the hangar was such a big and exciting first time experience for them....IF Etihad crew were in seat...which apparently they were not.
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 08:05
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Attn: Type rated A345/A346 LAEs

Are there recent reliability issues surrounding the BSCU?
Faulty discriminants? Prox sw's? LVDTs/RVDTs?

What with Quito, Cape Town and Toulouse, is there
maybe an underlying common cause?

Regards

BAe146???
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 09:15
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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For interest.
.
Normal park brake is only applied to wing gear.
.
Centre gear can get applied via parking brake system if a certain set of conditions exist, another computer will allow that to occour (FCPC), think it's called the ultimate brake when the parking brake applies to all 12 wheels, think aircraft will be at speed and parking brake applied in the flt deck.
.
Best wishes to all involved.
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Old 17th Nov 2007, 16:20
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Engine Testing/ Brakes ON only

Been a while now, I used to do a few of the line testing on the old L1011's.
I assisted in holding the brakes, and I was quite amazed the first time testing just one Rolls Royce at a time, trying to hold it back with both feet on the brakes. He's a heavy, and he was angry I was holding him back.

Seems to me I had to also monitor reserve pressure and transfer backup reserve as the pressure bled off from standing too long on the brakes.
They were 15 years old then in the mid eighties. Maybe one ship left in Holland.

Being you cannot see the engines from the pilots seat, I had to see for myself up close as to why we are basically being thrown out of the seats from the oscillations. Who ever designed the engine mounts knew what they were doing. I never saw so much twisting of major components at that power range.

I don't think I would ever try 2 engines at once, let alone 3 it had. From all the severe oscillations, I would think this would break loose the tires at some point. If an inch of traction is ever lost, It would be one big out control city bus in a hurry.

From TUGNBAR:
we are made to stand in front any a/c during high powered engine runs either in sight or in RT contact, (for safety reasons!!!)

This too really did not sink in as the possible reality, and I was also in this position on the next tests that I decided to position myself directly in front of the engine hardwired into the cockpit. I hope I had the truck in gear ready to escape.

I was reluctant to report what I did see, and at night one can see from off the front fan,, the dancing lightning.
Wish we had digital camera then.

This current incident is odd, and may have to get out the black, I mean Orange boxes to see what really happened. It better not be blamed on a iPod.
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